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Torino
Advanced Driver

?- what bit of racing nostalgia would you like to see return

when i was watching "the 500" they had Parnelli Jones wave the green flag. liked seeing that. then i thought how cool would it be if Ford had brought a Jones / Stroppe  edition of the new Bronco. (Farley are you listening?) better yet what if it paced the field. I,d love to see them go back to having a different car and manufacturer  be " The  Official Pace Car" for that year as once had been ( Roger are you listening?) i know with corporate money being as integral as it is to the series the chance is between slim and none but it begs the question...  

12 REPLIES 12
hyperv6
Engineer

Well with a Ford stock around $6 they are not in a place where doing a pCe car program in a series they are not in makes sense. 

Add to that Indy requires American models to be a Pace car kind of limits things anymore with only Honda and GM there. 

The high cost of racing has killed many things and destroyed many series. 

Some of the best racing today is the SCCA Trans Am series but so few pay attention. That series is much like the old days. Garage and paddocks are open. When I am there I see people I know and even have gotten to help with some. It is like local racing on a national scale. 

Where else can you come home with most of Greg Picketts Jaguar hood. 

IMSA also is trying. I was in the garage area and ended up in John Potters lounge watching them down load the onboard telemetry. Not going to do that in NASCAR. 

Torino
Advanced Driver

i was talking more about the indy 500 pace car only. remember back in the day a lot of the pace cars were from manufacturers who had no ties to indy what so ever.  as a matter of fact most of the cars had either ford or offy and later the ford cosworths were 90% of the field. still other makes were " the official pace car of.... publicity is always good. ford stock may be down but i'm sure  they have more than enough cake to put that car together. other makes too. you could expand todays version to include foreign cars. love trans-am but don't get the coverage. and i look for and watch imsa whenever it's on. quality racing and the 24 at daytona is the unofficial start of the season for me.

hyperv6
Engineer

That is just it. With no ties to the 500 no company would spend the money to do a program. 

It all goes back to the high cost today of everything in the auto industry. 

Today GM holds a lock because no one wants to do the deal. It used to be automakers competed for the honor. 

Today for 1/10 of the cost of pace car program they can get 10,000% more return on dollar invested. That may even be conservative. 

Automakers are all in trouble. They are faced with doing EV programs but most can’t afford it alone or even have the R&D to pull it off. 

Case in point. Most automakers are going to need to merge or find a partner to remain independent. The GM Honda deal is a good example. GM can use the cost savings and Honda needs the help on these systems as they can’t do it alone. GM invested in tech and wants to sell and license the tech much like Intel does on chips to computer mfg. 

The cost today is going to change much of how things were done and how they will be done moving forward, Racing is going to see some major changes every series is struggling. 


Yes Ford could put a car together but there are many more options with a better return on investment. With money tight they are not going to invest in a program with little in it for them.

 

 

 

Torino
Advanced Driver

they're just pace cars. putting together a big dollar program isn't required.there aren't any major engineering costs or anything of the sort. most of the pace cars are little more than production models fitted with lights and decals, that's about it. the cost would be less than a spit in the ocean to any mass production manufacturer, even the smallest. it's a question of nostalgia, what was traditional and has disappeared. thats what i was asking. as i said initially 'chances are between slim and none', but i'd like to see them go back and have different models be the pacecar as they had for so many years.  ( its sort of like singing 'back home again in indiana' before the race or the milk to the winner)  i think a lot of other people would think it's cool too. it would be a promotion for i.r.l and the 500. much the same way you see past winners and cars the history matters. and being that penske now owns both he kind of has a free hand. so what i was  asking people is what thing that had been done, had been tradition, and no longer is would you like to see brought back like...the race winner(s) getting a laurel wreath around their neck for instance.

Guitar74
Gearhead

Agreed. A different paint scheme, stickers in the trunk, etc., are not going to put them out of business. It's not as if we're talking about someone developing a modern day version of the Ram srt10. 

 

I remember seeing Quad four Oldsmobile compacts with the "official pace car callouts", Corvettes, Dodge Dakotas, fox body Mustangs, and a few others that elude me. 

 

Generally done with a paint scheme that was black with grey. I don't think black or grey paint, and vinyl stickers at the cost that THEY get it for is going to be the proverbial nail in the coffin. 

TeutonicScot
Intermediate Driver

Well, I'll throw one in here that I miss and in a small way has taken something away from the sport of racing and that is the "running start" for the drivers at places like Le Mans. It was a small opportunity for some drivers & teams that maybe had not qualified so well to gain a couple of seconds at the start of the race.

I understand the accompanying risks from the mayhem that usually ensued and why it was changed, that and Jacky Ickx protest to the start of the 1969 race by simply walking across the track at the start, only to end up winning the race from the back of the field, proving his point, were some of the primary reasons it was discontinued.

But there are some things that continue to this day that came about as a result of the running start, including Porsche having engineered their cars ignition key switch on the left hand side of the steering wheel, which made it easily fall to hand as a driver jumped in the car thus saving a second or two.

Torino
Advanced Driver

yea it would be cool still...really as a safety issue it just wouldn't work. i don't know if it ever happened but what if a driver fell running over and wasn't seen lying on the track. plus the make sure all the belts are locked and tight. then you would have the start it and go melee. don't get me wrong i hear ya. thing is back when it was done that way,well to say driver safety was a secondary consideration would be an understatement. "this is a professional blood sport and it can happen to you..."  -steve m. ( micheal ) le mans -and that's when they had already stopped the run over,get in, start.

Sajeev
Community Manager

I would love to see stock cars made out of stock cars.  Adding cages to a production car, tuning the factory engine, etc.  V8s, rear wheel drive, manual transmissions, and tube frame chassis are fine and dandy, but at some point I would like to see an actual race where "Win on Sunday and Sell on Monday" can still be a thing. 

 

And who knows, maybe homologation rules would allow us to have more manual transmission options?  Well probably not, but it's fun to think that would happen. 

Guitar74
Gearhead

Preach on, brother! I too would like to se some semblance of "stock" get put back into stock car racing.
Torino
Advanced Driver

while i too would like to see 'stock cars' be more stock to tell you the truth i don't much care so much anymore. i stopped seriously watching i don't know how many years ago. when they went to the c.o.t., common template, etc cars i lost interest. i remember seeing... (the director of nascar competition maybe) what 7-8 yrs ago talking about the switch to fuel injection and how it was, paraphrasing , nascars commitment in developing new technologies' huh? when were the last carbed production cars made? a decade earlier there were a handful maybe. if nascars on i might check in but a couple of weeks or so ago they were i can't remember where. at the same time t.c.m. was showing ' a touch of evil' ,the proposed  orson welles directors cut. put that on and never switched back. the unfortunate side of it is that if nascar is the 'premier american motorsport' it doesn't bode well for us. brad keslowski (sp?)  said nascar has the best drivers in the world. well i'm not saying there aren't good ones but the best in the world? a rather broad claim wouldn't you say? ever watched an f.i.a. world rally car race? those drivers are truly amazing.

Guitar74
Gearhead

I would have watched ANYTHING with Welles in it over modern day NASCAR. I like to actually watch a race, not a production. An that's pretty much what any televised NASCAR race feels like to me. Also why I quit watching NFL. I don't care about the commentary before, during, and after. I have eyes that can clearly see so I really don't need a play by play. 

 

The best drivers in the world though? Sorry, not by a long shot.

Torino
Advanced Driver

the question has been expanded beyond my original scope. i was talking more 'trivial' things but no problem with that. yea you know that's probably the best answer to the question.what would i like to see return the most. the days when drivers went from one type of racing to the next. drivers used to drive anything they could get a ride in for a piece of the purse. a can-am car to a stock car to a b production to a....many times in the same week. so the best drivers? hell they could drive just about anything and win in them on any given weekend and they competed against each other in different series too. today you have to say best in this ,best in that, and then its what type of racing takes the most skill and and and. so it's all much more conjecture then it once was.