Who wore it better? 2022 Porsche 911 GT3 vs. 1993 Pontiac Firebird | Hagerty Media

[Hagerty]

Our first look at the 2022 Porsche 911 GT3 had all our focus on the impressive specs: 510 hp, a 9000-rpm redline, 50 percent more downforce-the list of impressive numbers goes on.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/who-wore-it-better-2022-porsche-911-gt3-vs-1993-pontiac-firebi...

[98SNAKEEATER]

This comparison absolutely makes no sense at all.
Lets focus on more timelapse motor builds please

[1BigOptimus]

I think it's meant to be a fun visual comparison by the way the article is written. Not a performance test. Now all I can see is a Firebird hood on a the GT3. 😃

[Geok86]

Does anyone at Hagerty actually do any fact checking before releasing these articles?! While the fake heat extractor hood came on all cars until the 98 facelift, starting in 93 you could order a Firehawk, which came with a ram air hood (Formula only), then in 95 you could get a Comp T/A with a slightly different from Firehawk ram air hood, and then in 96 the WS6 returned, using the same hood as Comp T/A, and was available on both Formula and T/A. As for comparing a nearly 30 year old Pontiac, to a new Porsche....the only similarity is the hood....must be a slow day at the Hagerty office, and or, you’re running out of material.

[ThumperUSMC]

I was going to say just about the same thing you did...LOL

[Brandan]

So, in other words, the heat extractors we're talking about, were "found on the hood of the V-6-powered base Firebird as well as the V-8-powered Formula and Trans Am, before the latter eventually got a more aggressive Ram Air hood that became available in 1995." I never said the heat extractors were on the Firehawk.

[Geok86]

No, but you did say that the ram air hood first appeared on the T/A in 95, which it did, on the Very limited production Comp T/A, which was partially done to prepare for the WS6 Formula and T/A of 96-97 (before LS1 and facelift), but the first 4th gen ‘Birds to use a ram air hood were the 93 Firehawks...which were still Firebird Formulas. Ultimately Hagerty just seems to lack a lot of knowledge on 4th gens period, but especially on the rarer models.

[Brandan]

This wasn't a history of 4th-gen Firebirds or about when the 4th-gen first got the ram air hood, it was about where you could expect to see those heat extractors and you wouldn't find them on a Firehawk.

[Geok86]

Then you should have left it at that...all ‘Birds got the fake vented hood, and never mentioned the ram air hood at all, since it was only available on optional packages (Firehawk, Como, and WS6).

[Geok86]

edit: Comp.

[DADSOLDS_1968]

'Ultimately Hagerty just seems to lack a lot of knowledge on 4th gens period, but especially on the rarer models.'
You're telling me. To this day they think my limited edition '02 Firehawk is a standard production car and will not give me the status. Is it because I would pay less? hmmm

[DADSOLDS_1968]

PS - FYI '02 Firehawks have FUNCTIONING heat extractors.

[Darold]

Hey there @DADSOLDS_1968 , we do have specific data in our Valuation Tool for the Firehawks. If you want to shoot me a DM, I would love to look into this for you!

[Greg_I]

@DADSOLDS_1968  Could you elaborate a little on what your concerns are? Hagerty carries the Firehawk in the price guide and they are worth more than the standard Trans Ams. https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/search/auto/Pontiac/Firebird/Trans_Am_SLP_Firehawk/2002 

You guys might want to cut the author a bit of slack as you are sacrificing one of your own here. He is a die hard Pontiac fan. Valuation was established by a Firehawk fan. I can say that with 100% certainty, because I'm the guy who posted the value. The author and I have extensively covered the Firehawk in the past more than once in far more detail.

[Beestly]

Call me crazy but I’m going Firechicken all the way on this one. Make it a three-pedal WS6, please. Porsche needs to change their game. At least Pontiac knew when to let a design go.

[2019GTS]

That comment is laughable. Porsche has been and probably always will be the pinnacle of sports cars, the one all other manufacturers always (try) to set the bar against. Pontiac HAD to let the design go because no one was buying them anymore. The Porsche is still for sale now and likely will be forever, even with an "old" design, which most car enthusiasts still drool over.

[kip]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and taste. Personally I would take one of my Pontiacs, Jags, or Healey over a Porsche any day. Have always found most German design, well kind of spartan and boring.

[MATTMERICA]

I agree. For god's sake, 30 years and it looks exactly the same! I am sure the porsche supporters will fry my comment, but really, it is a good thing the vehicle is so awesome performance wise. That and the fact that you can pay from $75k to $400k for literally the same looking car.

[Geok86]

Pontiac was still selling more Firebirds, than Porsche was selling all of their models at the time, but yes you are right, the 2 door personal vehicles were being replaced by SUV/CUV, and production ended....also no Pontiac ever compared to a Porsche, and I own a Firehawk.

[Oldimpala]

Pinnacle?

As a guy who's owned a few, I'd argue that statement. Every decade has had Volkswagen produce competent vehicles, no doubt, but they don't live alone on an island. In each and every decade, German, Italian, American, and Japanese manufacturers have been able to hand Porsche it's proverbial ***. Most at the same time.

Let's also not forget the fantastic VW sourced electrical components.

My 348 was far more reliable than my 993; things like failing door pin switches causing random alarms at 3A in the garage never failed to endear me to VW electronics.

I'm no fan of modern Corvettes, but a Z51 equipped C8 is faster and more competent than a current GT3, and it's half the price. Let's not even discuss the aftermarket for each, and potential to do more, with less. Is the interior plastic, sure, but so is the Porsche... At least it's honest. And when one breaks?

I drive German. But VW/Audi/Porsche? Never again, unless I can find another 912E (I do miss that car.)

I'll stick with a vintage E-type, anything with a prancing horse on the front, any MG, a Healey, you name it... I'd probably rather have it in my garage than a Porsche.

[911Guy]

I’ve had the polar opposite experience. Couldn’t be more different. Owned 911s for 25 years, owned VWs for 40, including the 55 year old one in my garage now. 8 German vehicles are out there today. The 993 I’ve had since 2009 and have merely changed oil. My longest lasting Golf, a diesel, had 486,000 miles when I sold it. Porsches are built to an exquisite standard, and the whole world knows it. This is why they often (mine 100%) appreciate. It’s also why people trade Corvettes all day long on Porsches but it’s virtually unheard of for the opposite.

[DesertDon]

“It’s also why people trade Corvettes all day long on Porsche’s but it’s virtually unheard of for the opposite”.
Really? In what world have you experienced that?

[911Guy]

Hate to burst your bubble but in the Feb/Mar issue of Car and Driver they directly compared the track times on Virginia Intl. Raceway and the new Corvette C8 Z51 posted a lap time of 2:49 and the 2018 911GT3, the OLD PLATFORM car, posted a 2:47. Two seconds on a lap is an eternity.

[DesertDon]

You are absolutely right. The same article had a 2019 C7 (old platform) Corvette ZR1 post a 2.39 lap time. An eight second faster lap that the Porsche.
Oh, the ZR1 also cost $141k vs the $165k Porsche.

[DesertDon]

You are absolutely right. Two seconds on a lap is an eternity. That same article had a 2019 C7 (old platform) Corvette ZR1 post a 2.39 lap time on Virginia Hill. An eight second faster lap than the Porsche you cited.
Oh, the Corvette cost $141K vs the $161 for the 2018 Porsche 911GT3

[Beestly]

You may be right. I mean, what’s not to love about a car with a boring rubber interior, 60 year old body lines, and an engine that sounds like a VW Beetle? Porsche for the win! Seriously. I wasn’t comparing performance, but then again that’s not what the article was about, right?

[Mr_Whatsittoya]

Other manufacturers try to set the bar against Porsche? Tell that to Ferrari. I'm not a Ferrari fan-boy. I love all cars that are well engineered, beautifully designed, and are exciting to drive. And a car doesn't have to do 0-60 in less than three seconds, a quarter mile in under 10 seconds or have a 200+ mph top speed to be considered exciting or a great sports car.

I have always loved most Porsches (sorry 924) and the 911 has one of those designs that is instantly recognizable and will always be stylish because that design transcends time. It's similar with how the Jeep Wrangler will always be instantly recognizable. Both vehicles can be named just from their silhouette.

[5869Corvette]

Ya gotta be kidding. What mind would even think of this comparison?

[1BigOptimus]

Did you read the article? It's obviously not a performance test, just a fun write up on the similarities of the hood vents. Some of you are taking this a little too seriously.

[Phildini1]

Porsche, it’s race bred. Firebird, lost its way after 1973 Trans Am SD-455.

[98SNAKEEATER]

Agreed
70-73 is where it's at
Here's one of my 70 T/A's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKbk50wvsqM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwCz3wg81aQ 

[25aniv]

I don't really see this as a "which one wore it better" piece. Two very different cars in which both have very different followers. Each has its good and bad and those willing to overlook or overly defend them.
You could take anything anywhere and do the same. Just depends how hard you squint or how grey the thought is. This one is squinting pretty hard. You have a Firebird, you have a Porsche, who cares just enjoy the damn cars! 🙂

[GregH]

The hood is where the similarity begins and ends. Typical of many of the American versions of a car idea, there is added bloat. The Porsche design seems tighter, purposeful. The Firebird could lose at least 8" off the front, and be better for it. The Porsche body seems to barely wrap the functions below the surface - look how the body stretches out around the wheels. The Pontiac looks like a slab of formed clay with holes cut out for wheels. Porsche created the car and then wrapped a body over that. Pontiac created a body shape, then fit a car underneath.

[Brandan]

It's almost as if the whole article is about the hood scoops being similar.

[edddurst-gmail]

I have to agree. The Pontiac, hands down. I have never been a fan of the porch body style and "stealing" an old Pontiac front doesn't make it any better. They may be a screaming, handling machine but again, I am not a fan of the body.

[2019GTS]

Porsche stealing an old Pontiac front! Hilarious! You ever think maybe that Porsche added that to their design because it was functional and has purpose? Porsche has round wheels too, I wonder who they stole that idea from? LOL

[edddurst-gmail]

That's an easy one. They stole it from Fred Flintstone. Maybe you didn't notice the quotation marks around "stealing". Do you take your wife that serious, too? I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes. I will remember to be extra serious when I comment on something you may be reading.

[MATTMERICA]

That is a funny response, I don't care who you are.

[coop]

Excellent. Good one.

[Gene_M]

Hagerty: Are you serious?

[MATTMERICA]

I think Hagerty is laughing at all these comments generated - they throw some goofy comparo out there - and they know full well the porsche people are ardent supporters of the brand, it's like pouring gas on a fire

[Eric]

Honestly, we thought it was funny how similar the heat extractors looked between two totally alien cars. This has evidently hurt a lot of feelings.

[AntiqueAnarchy]

Porsche definitely has the more profitable hood

[JLM]

Seriously? What is next....Chip Foose designs his favorite Pontiac/Porsche mashup?

[kip]

probably!

[67Firebird]

^^^ LLLLOVE IT !!! ^^^

[Wedgehead]

Come on guys,you really can't see the similarities between the two? Look at the split screen of the front end view,very similar! Of course they are not comparing the cars verbatim,just the front end view.

[Tom9716]

Thanks for reminding folks to lighten up. Even thought it won’t contribute to “Whirled Peas”, the idea of discussing something as silly as comparing hood scoops on two totally different cars makes for interesting conversation. I owned a 1982 Firebird Trans Am and currently have a 2015 Cayman. Brute force vs. smooth finesse. I love them both.

[Geok86]

1982 Firebird, and brute force...2 words that really can’t be used in the same sentence.

[mtdug]

While it is certainly no 911, I believe the 4th gen Firebird was/is underappreciated. While at a glance it looks similar to the 3rd gen car, but was actually quite different. The 4th gen had the engine moved back 18" from the 3rd gen changing the center of gravity and enhancing handling. Later models had the excellent LS engine which as tuned to up to 335 HP in the later years. Also the 4th gen had the best Coefficient of Drag of any mass production car at the time it was released, I believe .32 or less. I do hate the looks of the dual snorket "Ram Air" hood, so mine is without it. One of the things I like about the base model is that it has the Porche style "Whale Tail", between that, the hideaway headlight and the T-Tops, I was sold, and the best of all is that they are quite affordable in todays collector market...