cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

The new CT5-V Blackwing is pricey, but GM's V-8 sport sedan forebears are prime for the taking | Hagerty Media

As the era of General Motors' exceptional driver's sedans readies to kick off its 668-hp farewell tour this summer, many enthusiasts find themselves with a renewed hunger for four-door performance with that tried-and-true combo of V-8, rear-drive, and manual transmission.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/hagerty-insider/the-new-ct5-v-blackwing-is-pricey-but-gm...
66 REPLIES 66
protodite
Intermediate Driver

I really wonder now how swift that depreciation will be. I would have to doubt it would be anywhere near where it was in the past (AKA Pretty damn steep), but looking at those Price Guide numbers I can't help but notice those manuals have really gone up. Given that these things are truly going to be the last manual portioned V8 powered super sedans from any brand at all, I'd have to guess the collector appeal and value basically starts when the car is initially sold. Of course they'll lose value off the lot, but I can't see it being a cliff like the past…
(And for what it's worth, here's hoping people continue to realize how good those M6 ATS-V Coupes are)
JackVan
Intermediate Driver

Just bought a brand new R?T Scat Pack 392 for less than the used CTS/V and SS. You could get a Hell Cat for less than the Caddy.
cdkrek
Intermediate Driver

Charger or Challenger? You can’t get a Charger with three pedals.
genethemachine
Pit Crew

The ultimate performance bargain is the first generation CTS-V made in 04-05, I believe. For about 15-20k, you get 400hp, RWD, and excellent chassis dynamics. The best part—they came in manual only! Yeah, it’s not a looker, and the interior looked outdated even when it launched. But, for those where even 40-50k is a stretch, it’s a great bargain on a mostly forgotten American V8, RWD, manual sport sedan.
F360Spider
Detailer

If it has more than two doors, it cannot be called sport anything. It's a family sedan if it has four doors.
mojack82
New Driver

Hear! Hear!
DT
Detailer

Can't think of anything original to say ??
mojack82
New Driver

Nicht notwendig - eigentlich ist weniger mehr. Wie schlägt es auf Deutsch, DT?

DT
Detailer

You know what they say about opinions......
V8_ICEman
Pit Crew

Yeah well a Panamera Turbo S disagrees with your ignorance. Oh and it will entirely destroy your old F360 both on the drag strip and on a road circuit and be close with any current Ferrari for less money. That's gotta hurt so bad it leaves a mark.
dreamingeagle
Detailer

no less than BMW made one of the best sports sedans ever in the 1980s, so good it was called a four door sports car;

though it only two doors, the early Saab 900 turbos were flat plain magical, one of the best FWD platforms ever built;

the Maserati Quattroportes were another outstanding design;

all can be had for far less than this trio, perhaps by half, which would make it very difficult to choose any one of them;
K-Lap
Pit Crew

Two door cars are cool. Four door cars... not so much.
Price out a 57 Chevy and compare the two door versions to the unwanted 4 door options. There is no comparison. The 57 Chevy is just an example. You can do the same thing with just about any model, comparing 2 door versions to 4 door versions of the same models.
2 Doors is cool, 4 doors is not.
Just my humble opinion...
64jeepsrt
Intermediate Driver

I disagree... alot of the older 4drs 50's, 60's and 70's that are hardtops (no post) are pretty cool looking cars...
64jeepsrt
Intermediate Driver

Or... as I like to call my Chrysler 300 SRT, Muscle with a tuxedo!
Rider79
Instructor

You are entitled to your opinion, my friend.
MajorTomB
Intermediate Driver

For my, one of the coolest things about the Chevrolet SS was that you could buy the Holden badges at the dealership. I came across a completely rebadged, black, 2017 manual equipped car at a Mark's Cruise night, in East Granby, CT, in 2019, and it took me a couple minutes to realize what I was looking at. That big lion's head pushing out from the grill had me baffled. Then I started laughing. It was very cool. Unfortunately, I never ran across the owner. And I only saw it that one time. Maybe on June 8th, when they start back up, I will see it again.
ed
Detailer

Personally, I never understood the whole rebadging psyche. I put the Holden grill on mine, ran it for about a month, then went back to the bowtie with a carbon fiber wrap. I found that the Nascar fans were far more curious about the SS than the Commodore.
SJ
Instructor

Its so simple, just plug in Sports Car in Google and see what comes up, all 2 doors(as they have been since the MG at least). Car & Driver 21 Best Sports Cars all are, drum roll, 2 doors. 4 doors can be sporty but not a true sports car.
MustangJim
Detailer

I would have to go for the Pontiac GXP. Back in the early 70's I had a GTO so I am partial to Pontiac, besides the fact that its an orphaned brand. I think that in time it may go up in value because of that, but in the meantime, it is a heck of a lot of fun.
Studenorton
Advanced Driver

Closed cockpit, roll-up windows? Let's not be hypocritical.
Mikesdad1
Pit Crew

The best way to loose your money, buy a GM car, before I got my current 2018 E43, I looked at the CT6, 3.0 turbo, loaded up, 90 grand, lease #? Almost S Class money, you know why, cause when that 90,000 Cadillac hits the pavement and looses 30 grand,that’s why, haven’t bought a new GM since 1983, lovely Riviera w that amazing 307 Oldsmobile motor that couldn’t go up hills, sorry but GM robbed its loyal, then wants us back
MATTMERICA
Instructor

GM is a joke and is run by an idiot. They have made just about every bad decision a company can make, and they will not be getting any of my money any time soon.
87GN98VET
Pit Crew

Have you even driven any of the cars in this article. Doubt it.
87GN98VET
Pit Crew

Lol complaining about resale value and you own an E43? You’re in for a treat when you decide to sell, I assume you didn’t research MB resale values, maintenance costs or reliability when you made your decision...
AZDon
Pit Crew

GM builds cars in China = don’t buy GM cars.
MattK
Detailer

So does Ford, so go buy a Volvo, oh wait Volvo is OWNED by China.
87GN98VET
Pit Crew

Guess what, all manufactures build cars in China. They are the largest market. Makes business sense build in local markets. GM still has the most domestic content of any manufacturer in the US.
Rider79
Instructor

Or, just don't buy the stuff made in China - like the Buick Envision.
Tom_the_Tech
Pit Crew

If Chevrolet had done any advertising at all for the Chevrolet SS it would have been in higher demand while in production. I personally have a 2011 Chevrolet Caprice PPV Detective edition that never went into service, bought from a dealer in early 2013. Built by Holden, this car is a nice plain family sedan that with only minor changes to the exhaust now produces 425 HP and runs 13.2 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Not a collector car but I enjoy it.
Patrician
Intermediate Driver

My family has owned dozens of GM cars since 1953. Including 3 1964 Chevelles, 1967 SS396 Chevelle , 1969 427 Corvette, 1973 454 Kingswood Estate, 2006 SSR, 2008 G8 Pontiac Two years ago I bought my fifth Suburban. All my other Suburbans went 250,000 miles or better with few problems. This 2018 Suburban has been a trip. In the first 15,000 it got an alternator, a melted shift cable because of a missing ground cable, one of the engine oil cooler lines blew off, my wife go stranded with it 800 miles from home because of an ecm malfunction and one window motors had to be replace. Let me tell you what is going on. I own a repair shop for 41 years. 90% of the time we get parts from a GM dealer the parts are made everywhere but the U.S. If anyone has had the misfortune of going to Rochester, NY there are nothing but miles and miles of closed up GM parts factories. Has anyone ever seen a 40 story office building boarded up? That is the old GM building in downtown Rochester. GM makes very little. Like Chrysler they outsource everything to the lowest bidder. The old pre bankrupt GM made the car bumper to bumper except for tires, glass and a few other things. This is how GM repays the government for bailing them out. Barra and GM management should be hanged. GM invented the automatic transmission. They sold major components to their competitors like transmissions, gear boxes, power steering pumps, A/C compressors, alternators and brake systems. GM in the 1970's invented and manufactured the best and most sophisticated ignition control module. It not only eliminated points but varied dwell with RPM for a smooth acceleration sequence. It was the size of a matchbook when Mercedes had a box under the hood to do the same job the size of a breadbox. Today, GM is suffering from a chip shortage because they don't produce anything themselves. How could a company that use to sell 750,000 Buicks every year barely sell 200,000 Buicks when there are more cars on the road than ever. Simple, they make junk since the bankruptcy.
stevecobb45
Detailer

Back in the 70's I installed automated warehousing equipment at several GM facilities around the country. Here's the list:
Rochester Products, Rochester, NY
Delco Remy, Anderson, IN
Delco Products, Dayton, OH
Guide Lamp, Anderson, IN
Allison Transmission, Indianapolis, IN
Oldsmobile Assembly Plant, Lansing, MI
To see the majority of these facilities close down breaks my heart for the people who lost their jobs. But I have to say, they were paid way more than most doing the same job working elsewhere. At the Cutlass plant in Lansing when there was "change-over" (setting up for next years production) these people collected unemployment plus the labor union made up the difference of full take-home pay for a couple months while they vacationed in Florida. They got to buy 2 new cars a year at cost price & resell them for more profit. How can something like that be sustained? Fact is, it can't & this is why outsourcing is commonplace.
DT
Detailer

There is really no way to please everyone is there. If they were bad to the employees some would complain. If they are others complain. Truth is most new cars are throw away junk no matter the price.....
DT
Detailer

You sure took up a whole lot of room to say nothing.......
Olds34dude
Pit Crew

...and Oldsmobile was outselling Buick when they got the ax
MATTMERICA
Instructor

I am with you on that, thank you for sharing. They will never get any of my money, unless of course I am buying pre-bankrupt-made vehicles.
87GN98VET
Pit Crew

Get your facts straight. The Government bailed out the banks, not GM. GM was given a LOAN which was repaid years in advance.
Rider79
Instructor

Funny thing - my 2015 Impala is, quite literally, the best overall car I have ever owned. And I have owned a LOT of GM cars, from model-years 1968 thru 2015.
cueguy
Pit Crew

I'm in lock-step with your article. Started in 1996 with an Impala SS. In 2009 I bought a Pontiac G8 GT, unfortunately they were only available with the A/T - but that was OK as my job had me on the road in heavy NE traffic, so I didn't mind the auto trans. After I retired, I traded the G8 for a 2017 Chevy SS with the manual trans - still my EDD. I really like the idea of performance coupled with four doors and a trunk. Of course one still needs their toys and my two Corvettes fill that niche.
qualicas
Pit Crew

I bought a 2006 CTSV in late 2006. Back then GM had a deal where you could drive a selection of cars around a closed course for $10.00. I was in Las Vegas and I drove a Red CTSV and a Black STSV. Later that year I bought my CTSV. It had been a California car and had 125 miles on it. I am almost sure it is the same car I drove in Las Vegas. I still have the car 100000 miles mostly highway. I will never sell it and it still makes me happy when I drive it. I also have one of the very few ATSV coupes with a manual as well. I like it but would like a 4 door much better. Getting anything in the back seat is a problem. Both cars are my summer cars. Longing to go for a trip!
Bob360
New Driver

The day I buy a GM product will be the day Hell freezes over.
DT
Detailer

I bet the Big Boys at GM lay awake at nite worrying about that......
bloodnok
Pit Crew

got to drive a friend's holden commodore (modified with a bow-tie) on an autocross circuit. what a beast! going from my mazda roadster into that monster was a bit of a strain on the cognitive and reflexive portions of the noggin but it really hauled. impressive.
Blu_z_guy
New Driver

Have you guys given up completely on copy editors? Forbear (the word you used) and forbearer (the word you think you used) have very different meanings.
DT
Detailer

Just what we need , Grammar Police .......
Rider79
Instructor

Well, we do need some editing; people are getting really lazy in their writing nowadays. There is nothing cute or noble about poor grammar.
Eric
Hagerty Employee
Skipe
Pit Crew

None of them. GM hasn't built quality since the early 70's.
JackVan
Intermediate Driver

Your memory is bad. I had to work on them.
elldorado2000
Intermediate Driver

I own the V6 version of the G8. I love my car. If you have never driven one, you owe it to yourself to see how GM missed the boat by not advertising this car more as the G8 and then as the SS. It's the best GM sedan that most people don't know about and that is a shame. I would add that mine has 200K miles on it and has been extremely reliable. Those Aussies know how to build a car!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGNOUhlaWjE&t=152s