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Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

Revealed: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning | Hagerty Media

Ford just yanked the silk off its new, all-electric 2022 F-150 Lightning pickup, the next salvo in the company's wave of all-electric vehicles, following the E-Transit van line and controversial Mustang Mach-E. Although that pudgy pony and the rolling cargo-toaster were nice first steps, let's make one thing clear: This all-electric pickup is arguably the company's single most important EV release to date.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/revealed-2022-ford-f-150-lightning/
191 REPLIES 191
trymes
Intermediate Driver

It'll be an XL trim with a rubber floor and no brightwork, but yes. I'm willing to bet that the larger battery will not be available on XL trims, probably not XLT, either (at least not for non-fleet buyers).

SJacobT
Detailer

To prove your point: that is  almost exactly what the '21 Tundra I just bought was OTD. That got me a poverty-spec tow-package SR with a big goose-egg for options! They apparently all have Carplay and radar-cruise, though, which I appreciate.

MATTMERICA
Technician

lol - "poverty-spec"
bradfa
Intermediate Driver

That low end price on the Lightning is very interesting. On Ford.com right now the cheapest F150 XL SuperCrew short bed 4x4 I can price out is an MSRP of $42,500 including destination.
If you qualify for the full Federal $7500 tax rebate (and in NY there's an additional state $2000 EV rebate) then the poverty spec Lightning is substantially less expensive than the equivalent gasser. Possibly this is a bit misleading, there may be fleet order special gasser configurations which normal customers cannot price out which are a lower MSRP, but still, to get a full sized 4x4 crew cab pickup for under $31k MSRP (in NY, $33k possibly in other states) is seriously impressive!
50s60s70s
Intermediate Driver

for those discussions involving pollution, we...collective WE are doing the same thing that has always been done by trading one problem for another. We traded horse poo for carbon emissions, now we're trading emissions for discarded batteries. Unless I'm mistaken there's no plan in place to handle millions of batteries discarded over the next decade or so.
As far as the Lighting goes.. yawn 🥱 ...four doors...REALLY! Ford has definitely lost a life long ford customer and collector.
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

@50s60s70s . Battery components can be largely recycled.
50s60s70s
Intermediate Driver

I absolutely agree...the term (largely) worries me a bit. 

Plastics are largely recyclable...look at our ocean. 

Just saying "we" need to do better on the front end. 

trymes
Intermediate Driver

@50s60s70s: You're right to worry, there will be problems, but it's not like we don't already have problems, as @tdskip mentions. Plenty of old cars parked in the woods where the engine and differential oil will leak into the earth. Carbon and other pollution from the production of oil.

EVs aren't a magical solution to our problems, but they are an incremental improvement.

TonyT
Instructor

The last time I looked, man does not "produce" oil. It is extracted, refined and recycled. Man "produces" electricity via dams, photovoltaic panels, wind turbines, geothermal generation and coal and nuclear heaters. That "leaking oil" is going back to where it came from. The giant open-pit mines created in search of the raw materials needed for battery production won't be being refilled any time soon.
mhealy1
Detailer

Here we go again...
“Largely”. How large is that percentage?
“Components”. Which components? I found a Wickipedia article (yes I know the big W is often inaccurate but it’s the best I can do) that says 25-96% of lithium-ion components are currently recycled, depending on the recycler, but virtually none of the lithium because recycled lithium is five times more costly than mined lithium.
I’m not sure I can agree with “largely”.
trymes
Intermediate Driver

@50s60s70s: I bought a two-door truck this past year, and it was hard to find one (nobody wants them but you and I). Ford is being smart by starting with the crew cab. It shares a wheelbase with the extended cab, so that should be a reasonably easy model to add. An entire new frame would be needed to add regular cab models, so it doesn't make much sense until the demand can justify it, especially as the profit margin is smaller.

As for battery recycling, more progress is needed in this area, but we are still in the early days of the EV market. The first decent modern EV is just under 10 years old! Volkswagen is one of many working in this area, and the value of the raw materials will almost certainly ensure that recycling takes hold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi8Y2lF7Luw

Volkswagen Group Components opened the Group's first plant for recycling electric car batteries in Salzgitter. As pilot operation commences, the Volkswagen G...
rsavage
New Driver

This will just work perfectly when I drive to see my grandsons - 400 miles to Delaware and 720 miles to NC. When I go camping, I will have to stay within a 300 mile radius. But I can stop at a nearly non existent charging station, hope that there is a connection available, and sit there for an hour. Total BS. I hope that they dispose of the batteries in the neighborhoods of all these idiots that think all electric vehicles. The batteries are fire hazards and they contain elements that can pollute ground water. Big companies often ship their batteries overseas for recycling as there are less stringent standards. Feel good about creating less carbon as you poison the world. Lunacy.
plamry
Pit Crew

Old Man Shakes Fist at Cloud
MrKnowItAll
Detailer

Sometimes, a youngster, still wet behind the ears, shames another... who may have age-acquired "horse sense"; a skill not apparent to the arrogance of youth.
Don't you just adore virtue signalling?
plamry
Pit Crew

Another old man shakes fist at cloud!

How do you know how old I am?

This truck isn't apparently being built for "rsavage." But to call everyone who embraces electric vehicles idiots misses the point that there are advantages to this technology. Instant torque. Not having to use gasoline, a resource that no matter if it runs out next year or in 1000 years is still a limited resource. Not having to fuel up at a gas station if you have a decent home charger. Quiet cruising. How many electric vehicles have either of you two "idiots" owned?

Also interesting take from someone dubbed "MrKnowItAll"

mhealy1
Detailer

Just FYI, the component minerals in EV batteries are also finite in quantity, and are not necessarily found in this country. We need to consider the ramifications of relying too heavily on resources over which we have little or no control (remember OPEC?).
BMD4800
Technician

Don’t forget, the reason lead acid batteries shot up in price was because an “Administration” shut down the lead smelter in Missouri. Now it is done overseas.
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

@BMD4800 - We are all quite sure that global demand and commodity prices has nothing to do with it fortunately for the sake your compelling denial of reality.
BMD4800
Technician

Tdskip… the prices were up long before the current commodity jump.

I do enjoy the attacks, but try to understand the smelter was shut down because of ever increasing pollution regulations, under the Obama administration.
BMD4800
Technician

Here you go skipper…

https://doerun.com/media/news/the-doe-run-company-provides-update-on-closure-of-last-primary-lead-sm...


So of this denial of reality of which you speak…
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

LOL - yes, I’m sure we can all agree that a single plant drove increases in the global market with lower cost overseas plants still operating. By the way, speaking of reality, I never said that the plant didn’t close, just that it closing that long ago wasn’t the sole reason for any price change that we’re seeing in the market.

TonyT
Instructor

Here in SoCal, if a trashcan in an oil refinery catches fire, gas prices shoot up like fireworks on the fourth of July. All some of these energy-related producers need is a scent of a reason to jack prices up.
BMD4800
Technician

Try to keep up, it was the last domestic lead smelter.  

yes, the costs increased as a result. 

You clearly don’t check links, if you had the plant was closed due pollution concerns, not costs.  The smelting is done in places with lower costs, but the prices did NOT decrease. 

tdskip
Intermediate Driver

@rsavage - it’s good thing there’s no pollution created in the production and use of fossil fuel’s or the vehicles they power! Phew, otherwise I’m sure you’d be raising that as a consideration too...

Double standard much? Here’s a hint – if you have to result of bad logic to make criticism probably don’t have a strong argument to make.
mhealy1
Detailer

Nearly 40% of US electricity comes from natural gas. 67% of US natural comes from fracking. 19% of US electricity comes from coal. Stay off your environmental high horse or risk having facts knock you off the saddle.
BMD4800
Technician

Energy input vs output.  

total net energy for petroleum is still positive.  

next?

SJacobT
Detailer

"The batteries are fire hazards and they contain elements that can pollute ground water"

Mmmmm...your point that the stuff that goes into batteries isn't totally benign/inert is taken - but, have ya' ever seen a car fire?  Heard of the Exxon-Valdez?

Spanner
New Driver

RSAVAGE: Have you actually driven an EV? Have you actually looked for charging sites? I'm on my second EV - the first was a Tesla Model 3 that was destroyed when a kid in a Ford Fusion ran a red light and T-Boned the car on the driver's side (he admitted to the police he was going over 60 MPH and was playing with his cell phone). In my car, there were no fires, the airbags deployed and I got out of my car and walked away - the kid needed an ambulance for his injuries. Your assertion that there are no charging facilities is also fallacious, if you download that app PlugShare, you can find a growing number of charging facilities that cater to non-Tesla EVs. I have taken road trips in my Teslas and found no problem with charging. And you will not be disposing of EV batteries in a dump - there are too many valuable metals in them. There are already companies in the US scouring junkyards to get crashed EVs to recycle the batteries. I do know that many lead-acid batteries are shipped overseas for recycling, but Lithium-Ion cells are not being shipped out, they are being reused or recycled here to keep the Lithium carbonate, cobalt, nickel and other metals where they can be reused to build new Li-Ion cells. In three years of driving an EV, I've really enjoyed not paying for gas, not dealing with antifreeze, or transmission fluid. I've enjoyed the instant acceleration and smoothness of operation and the lack of wasting time at a gas station. I still have a hot rod with an aluminum block Olds V8, a Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon and three other cars I'm restoring, but for a daily driver or a car for a smooth trouble free trip, it's hard to be an EV. BTW, I'm not a kid - I'll be 70 soon.
Scott
Pit Crew

Can you get the one with a passenger side steering wheel like the one resident biden was “driving” the other day?
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

If you like in the UK, sure
trymes
Intermediate Driver

@Scott: Can you please be more clear about what bizarre conspiracy theory you're pushing here? Is it that Biden is a robot whose software does not have the ability to drive, or that he secretly grew up in New York City and never learned to drive?

Scott
Pit Crew

 

Scott
Pit Crew

Check it out.Check it out.

trymes
Intermediate Driver

@Scott: Did you actually watch the video, or are you just sharing crap like that without bothering to take a half-moment to see if it's even remotely true? Watch the video and it's clear the passenger has his hand on the dash. https://jalopnik.com/that-rumor-that-biden-didnt-really-drive-the-ford-f-150-1846929442

Scott
Pit Crew

  • Yes I did watch the video. Several times . Stop and go. And there is nothing “clear” when it comes to this guy. Relax man. Take a breath.
SJacobT
Detailer

Hope you took advantage of that sweet discount code for MyPillow, bromeo!
OldRoad
Instructor

trymes gonna wear out his right front tires turning hard left all the time.
CJinSD
Instructor

Jalopnik seems to have memory-holed that fake article. Maybe they were embarrassed by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6KUqSfZtPY
OldRoad
Instructor

The passenger is bracing for the head on.
drhino
Technician

Hello, broken record here. Can’t help myself. Here goes:
The government should not pick winners and losers; the market should decide. No tax breaks or credits on these things! If you want to buy one— buy it. Just don’t force everyone into an alternative that, for most creates problems.

Hard to fathom buying an EV with the infrastructure issues. Nice that this thing does all the algorithms to tell you how far you can go before it fizzles out- easier to just have one that runs on gas. Why complicate your life? And you get maximum range in minutes!

Say what you will about green electricity sources. Ask the folks in California dealing with rolling blackouts and the folks in Texas that had to contend with frozen windmills.

What about the human rights issues around the mining of the necessary minerals? What about dealing with the regimes that control them? What about disposal of used up batteries and fire risk?
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

@drhino - that’s an invalid argument. The government is already picking winners, it’s subsidizing the cost of conventional fossil fuels by not making consumers pay the full cost of using them, this is more commonly known as externalities.

If you’re serious about the economics You’d include that in your thinking, that you don’t choose that you’re not serious and just crying about the inevitable change that is now occurring.
Smithsonite
Intermediate Driver

"Inevitable", lol. We'll see about that.

So we're subsidizing fossil fuel usage? Care to explain how the hell that works? Fossil fuels are cheap and abundant - no subsidies necessary. It's the unreliable and expensive "green" energy that is sucking up all the subsidies.

By the time this marxist regime has completed their 4 years, there might not be anyone left that could afford a tire, let alone an entire vehicle, the way we're headed.
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

@Smithsonite - if you don’t think fossil fuel usage is heavily subsidized please drop us a note on this form when you return to planet earth.

Cripes.
Smithsonite
Intermediate Driver

You didn't explain how it works. I'm waiting ...

tdskip
Intermediate Driver

Wait – you really don’t think fossil fuel use is subsidized? Seriously? OMG.
trymes
Intermediate Driver

@Smithsonite: It's largely tax breaks that apply to the petroleum industry and not to other energy sectors. The government encourages the production of oil with financial incentives. If you are truly interested, just look it up. This is the first hit on Google when I type "Fossil Fuel Subsidies" in. https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-so...


Federal fuel economy standards also benefit larger vehicles.

tdskip
Intermediate Driver

Look at the lease rates paid for land for fossil fuel production on government property, vastly under market. Can anyone point me to the last time we sailed a bunch of warships to protect domestic solar production? Pretty sure we have never invaded another county to help protect offshore wind production.
BMD4800
Technician

You speak of economics and commodities, yet deny the economic impact of a global price spike in the cost of energy.

We may not like the way the global energy market is structured or the means to which we must maintain stability, but it doesn’t negate the impact.
CJinSD
Instructor

What does government owned land have to do with markets? Without misanthropic 'environmentalists' we would be completely energy independent, so we wouldn't need to waste blood and treasure in strange lands. Stop fighting oil. The reason the Chinese brainwashed you to reject oil was because we have it and they've been accumulating EV related raw materials, no matter how much ecological devastation and child slavery is involved. Want to be a decent human being? Support domestic oil production and consumption.
trymes
Intermediate Driver

@drhino: I absolutely agree 100% The government should remove the electric car subsidies, at the exact same time that they remove the much larger subsidies for gasoline/diesel/ethanol powered vehicles.

However, as someone opposed to government subsidies, I don't support removing *only* the EV subsidies and retaining the other subsidies. It just doesn't make any sense to me.