Revealed: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning | Hagerty Media

[Hagerty]

Ford just yanked the silk off its new, all-electric 2022 F-150 Lightning pickup, the next salvo in the company's wave of all-electric vehicles, following the E-Transit van line and controversial Mustang Mach-E. Although that pudgy pony and the rolling cargo-toaster were nice first steps, let's make one thing clear: This all-electric pickup is arguably the company's single most important EV release to date.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/revealed-2022-ford-f-150-lightning/

[Hagerty Fan]

What are the potential service costs of these coal powered EVs?

[trymes]

Generally, @Hagerty Fan, EVs have vastly lower service costs than gasoline-powered vehicles.

As for coal power, coal isn't the primary source of our electricity anymore, and it's shrinking daily. I assume that the implication you were making is that using coal for electricity used to power an EV negates any climate benefit of an EV, but it has been shown repeatedly that EVs are cleaner than gas, even when fueled using coal-powered electricity (which, again, they generally aren't). They also have the benefit of getting cleaner throughout their life as the grid continues to get cleaner.

[MATTMERICA]

In Virginia (where I live) 31% of electricity comes from coal. Nationally it is around 20%. In 2018 coal accounted for 23% of electricity nationally.

[Hagerty Fan]

Your pipe dream of a cleaner grid will not handle the demand. Planet Earth is a carbon producing planet, has been for sum 4 billion years. You'd think people would be used to it by now.

[DAY]

FYI, the MAJORITY of people will be charging their Electric Coal powered batteries AT NIGHT. In case you didn't know it, THE SUN DOES NOT SHINE AT NIGHT, AND COAL POWERED GENERATORS WILL BE CHARGING YOUR COAL POWERED VEHICLE BATTERIES. OH,, so you only drive at night and Charge during the DAY?? Yeah right.. hahahahahaha BTW, remember why the government Mandated the elimination of incandescent bulbs? TO LOWER THE DRAIN ON THE POWER GRID! AND NOW, YOU THINK IT CAN HANDLE THE MIND BLOWING DRAIN OF CHARGING ELECTRIC CARS AT NIGHT? HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Spanner]

Day: You obviously are unaware that coal powered generation plants are not shut down at night. Once they are operational, they keep on producing electricity 24/7. When the demand is low a lot of electricity is wasted in banks of resistance units that convert the excess electricity into heat. Having a bunch of EVs charging at night will help reduce the amount of energy that is being wasted.

[PRScott]

If you don't understand what is being discussed it's better that you say nothing.

[Sen]

In 50 years maybe

[mhealy1]

Just out of curiosity, where has it been shown that electrics are cleaner, even when using coal-generated electricity? If compared to the current US fleet, sure, but if compared to current emission standard vehicles, I’d like to see the studies.
I’m all for electrics, probably later after the infrastructure catches up, but keep in mind that quoted range is always “best case”. Add in lights, wipers, and electric heat (as needed in Midwest winters where I live), and range plummets. One study I saw, but can’t cite properly, estimates an 18% reduction in range from heating alone

[Backseatdriver]

Geezus, it’s people like you that have no idea of the big picture. You don’t give any innovation a chance. You have nothing good or positive to say. Just the same old ignorant, tiring gobbledygook.

The question that should be coming forward is: what happens when all the new EV truck owners ask their uncle who used to be an electrician installs the 240 volt charger with no sense of load calculations or energy management. Auto manufacturers should not try to enter the EVSE infrastructure space - this is not their area of expertise.

Really? Service costs? Coal powered? 🤯

[Gmondo]

IMHO it's the same people that claimed electric vehicles were viable decades ago but the govt suppressed the technology in a conspiracy to shore up big oil are the same ones who poo poo the emerging availability today. To coin an old adage "Some people you just can't reach."

[Hagerty Fan]

See my response to trymes.

[Zursch]

Coal-powered is a myth for most of the country - unless you live in places like Kentucky or West Virginia, where pretty much no one buys EVs. I did the homework.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/is-your-ev-actually-powered-by-coal/

[mhealy1]

Arizona is still almost 13% coal, just as an example. Most electricity is still fossil fueled, like natural gas (fracking, anyone?), so our “zero emissions” electrics still have a substantial carbon footprint.
Again yes, once the infrastructure catches up, just not now.

[bblhed]

Please discuss in detail how much you spend each year on the care and maintenance of your horse. What's that, you drive a car? It's called progress, you might not like it but it is a move over or get run over world.

[AMG]

Some of us are just tired of being lectured about this “progress”. EVs have some benefits but they also have drawbacks which just aren’t discussed by the people controlling the media channels. The “global EV marketing” is relentless, one sided and always ignores the serious potential issues of millions of TONS of battery chemicals that the world would be left to deal with.
As an example look at Europe and the huge push to adopt diesel because it has less carbon emissions than petrol. EU governments enacted tax policies to push diesel adoption until someone figured out diesel emissions is much worse than they thought and much more toxic to humans (and any other animals).
EVs are being treated just like diesel was 20 years ago (don’t look behind the curtain).

[Hagerty Fan]

See my response to PR Scott.

[PRScott]

It's only coal powered in the areas stupid enough to still rely on coal. The area I'm in has been hydro-electric for over a century and partially solar and wind for over a decade. When we charge our mitsubishi plug in hybrid at home it's 100% solar.The only maintainance is oil changes on the gas engine. Next vehicle will be electric only. Nearly zero maintainance. Maybe it will be this Ford. I don't even know where a Tesla dealer is

[MATTMERICA]

My area isn't "stupid" - it is mostly coal powered because nobody is giving away the billions of dollars to change the grid, and nobody is volunteering to pay even more in taxes

[Hagerty Fan]

Service costs on my cars will never exceed the 10s of thousand of dollars it will cost you to replace your deadly poison nickel alloy lithium ion battery for just one of your prized EVs. Several thousands of those dollars will be included as disposal fees for your dead battery to poison the earth unless there is a way to ship them to and dump them on the useless dead planet, Mars.

[DAY]

AMEN

[mhealy1]

Good for you! Ever consider the impact on the ecosystem that hydroelectric dam has had? Solar at home? Lucky you to live in the sunny climate I can only dream of, plus my landlord can’t figure out how to serve the eight cars in our complex with one solar panel.
Elitist, anyone?

[SJacobT]

I'm sure the ".gov" will trigger the real Americans around here, but lots of info here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php

[Sajeev]

Thank you for sharing this info, it means a lot! 

[SJacobT]

Just food for thought, sir - I'm sure it's just a spoon-feeding from the OWG!

[SJacobT]

The DOE is as deep-state as it gets!
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35197/the-department-of-energy-may-be-the-best-place-to-keep-a...

[tdskip]

@Hagerty Fan - in the highly unlikely case that you actually don’t know better, and in the nearly certain case that you’re not willing to research it, core utilization is being phased out rapidly because it’s just not cost-effective. New wind and solar plant costs are below core, which means that unlike a conventional car the power for this Ford will get cleaner and greener over its life cycle.

If you live in the south west or west relatively little, in some cases none, of your energy to drive this comes from coal.

But hey, what does reality have to do with the haters...

[tdskip]

That should obviously say “coal” not “core”. Sorry about that

[Sajeev]

(BTW, read this to learn how to edit your post: https://community.hagerty.com/t5/community-help-and-guidelines/community-help-how-do-i-edit-my-post/...) 

[Hagerty Fan]

I'll write your grammar school teacher and ask her for a letter of resignation.

[0luke1]

Nothing. Just tourists passing through.

[BMD4800]

Coal is not being phased out because it is not cost effective, it is being phased out because ever increasing pollution regulations have made mitigation not cost effective.

Aside from Nuclear, coal is the most reliable source of baseline power generation.

And for the record, Coal, Natural Gas, Diesel/Fuel Oil, Hydro, and Nuclear dominate the south west. Not Solar.

[tdskip]

@BMD4800 - got a love when someone’s response is based upon attacking something that wasn’t said. Nice going.

If you look at renewables in the southwest you’ll see that it already accounts for a significant percentage of power generation, and it’s climbing quickly and doing so at prices that are below cold and increasingly other power sources. There are times during the working day in California where not only do we get well over half of our power from renewables but there are times when it approaches 95%.

But, as noted elsewhere, what’s a little reality have to do with your hate.

[BMD4800]

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2019-total-system-...


You were saying?

It isn’t hate, it is data. Simply data.

[BMD4800]

@tdskip, you stated: ‘ core utilization is being phased out rapidly because it’s just not cost-effective. ’ and later corrected core to coal.

What I said was a direct response, on point, and based on demonstrable facts. If I offended you, I apologize.

[tdskip]

LOL, you didn’t offend me, but you did offend my sense of integrity in how you choose to ignore all of the widely available data and evidence to post almost 3 year old data and ignore more current information.

But hey, when you can’t make a rational assertion resort to  cherry picking data, right?

Tell us, what does the same source say for 2020 and what is the trend? How much of the average business day electricity in California come from renewables?

[MSuperfan]

First tdskip, please tell us about your classic vehicle. What do you own? This is a Hagerty story and site. Frankly, none of this discussion has anything to do with Hagerty's reason for being. Also, the author did a terrible job, unless his purpose was to merely regurgitate Ford's propaganda about this utterly foolish move. Ford had to try and top the previous STUPID F-150 "revolutionary change" of going aluminum; I do think that they have succeeded.

[Hagerty Fan]

Should trends you speak of include the frequencies of brown outs that occur in many counties of California in summer due to over booked grids of your prized renewables. You know, like when the wind won't cooperate with your bird killing wind turbine forests eye sores? How about when the sun refuses to shine on your poisonous solar panel grids?

[mhealy1]

Three year old data is the most current. Seems like the government can’t stay up-to-date on their reporting.
Unless of course you can offer some hard data that more current. Or do you just want to rely on your “significant” and “relatively little” platitudes?
The hard data shows CA at almost 41% generation by combustion (not just coal but all combustibles). Solar and wind account for around 23%.
Combustion creates CO2. Your “zero emissions” electric vehicle is therefore creating CO2 for 41% of its power. When you factor in fuel efficiency of power plants and energy losses in getting the electricity from the power plant to the point of charge (power is lost in the cabling and at every step-down in voltage), how much less CO2 does powering your electric really create, and how does that compare to current, emissions controlled ICE vehicles? I can only guess, as I haven’t found any studies offering hard data. Can you offer the data, or direct me to it, upon which you base your conclusion that electric vehicles are vastly cleaner than current ICE offerings?

[MSuperfan]

Sure, and then there are those "other times" (becoming more and more frequent), when CA, like the third world country it is becoming, has NO POWER. Go ahead and tell us all why that is really no biggie, and how it will get better, because everything always gets better when the government get more involved.

[mhealy1]

What percentage is “significant?” If 13% (the coal-generated percentage in AZ ) is “relatively little”, I assume solar in the southwest is substantially higher than that. Is that what you’re saying?
Vague terms but no offer of concrete numbers don’t cut it for me.

[DAY]

And just exactly HOW MUCH SOLAR AND WIND POWER DO YOU GET AT NIGHT, WHILE THE EV WILL BE RECHARGING THOSE COAL SUCKING BATTERIES?

[mhealy1]

I looked up AZs coal percentage-just shy of 13%.
I guess “relatively little” could be interpreted that way...

[Pdxcarguy]

Hey automakers...
Here's a suggestion...
How about making SMALLER/LIGHTER vehicles that use less fuel to start with...

Just one case in point. Look at a Toyota 4-runner from 1985 and the lastest 2021 behemoth. Talk about bloated!!!

[AirCooled70]

We are in the minority with that idea.  Car makes build what people buy, and people want rolling status symbols.

[MustangJim]

But, look at the added safety improvement between the 1985 4-runner and the new 2021. Of course I love old cars, I am here in Hagerty! I love V-8's etc.. The new cars are heavier and larger but they do things better and keep us safer, and help to make the world a better place. There is room for both!

[trymes]

@Pdxcarguy: Don't bother writing to carmakers, write your representatives in Congress. More stringent safety regulations, Fuel efficiency and environmental regulations that favor larger vehicles, and a fuel excise tax that is too low to cover the cost of maintaining the highway and road system are all reasons why cars are now bigger.

Add to that what others have said about buyers wanting the largest car they can afford to fuel, and carmakers have almost zero incentive to make a smaller car.

[Gmondo]

Smaller, lighter, more dangerous rolling tin cans. Hey automakers, keep bringing us more like this F150. It's an example of American ingenuity doing it right!

[Gopher_Baroque]

I was pulled into this read because I am looking for a wagon/truck to pull 8000 lb trailer. Not clear how a smaller/lighter vehicle is the solution. It seems to me we already have a lot of smaller/lighter vehicles, to the limit of current safety requirements. Resisting crash loads adds a lot of weight to a vehicle, maybe we just need a mandate to stop crashing cars? Just don't bring back the solid shaft steering column to save the weight of two small U-joints!