cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

LT6 Breakdown: The Z06's 670-hp V-8 is a landmark achievement

America's traditional performance path starts with a smoking heap of piston displacement under the hood. With the arrival of the 2020 Chevrolet Corvette, a.k.a. C8-a mid-engine first, after 67 years of front-motor Vettes-a radically different strategy emerged.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/lt6-breakdown-the-z06s-670-hp-v-8-is-a-landmark-a...
139 REPLIES 139
MeJ
Advanced Driver

This. I don't know what metemike is going on about...
john9546
New Driver

The only thing Coyote on the Ford Shelby Voodoo engine is the block (Shelby introduction 2015). Anyway, the Voodoo flat plane crank engine is advertised at 526 hp. Motortrend article (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-dyno-results/) on the 2019 GT350 shows a possible 55 hp higher dyno reading than advertised for 581 hp. Yes, this in not as impressive as the 670 hp Corvette engine. The real fun will be when the flat plane Corvette engine gets into a Camaro. It will be fun to play with them on the track with my GT350R; Ford against Chevy. There will always be a rivalry. I have driven both brands and like them both!!!
MAXTHEAX
Intermediate Driver

I hope you are correct, but the 7th gen Camaro sounds like a no go due to poor sales of the 6th. Given what a ZL1 costs at this time the additional cost of the flat plane is going to make for a large cost.
I have a 2017 SS1LE and the car is much less useful than the 1998 Z28 I also have. The rear hatch and space of the old one make it much more practical for daily use. Blend that into the track ability of the new car and you've got a winner.
Oldroad1
Technician

Bet the Voodoo has more wind up torque than the LT6. Just a guess.
Oldroad1
Technician

We'll see what Ford performance comes up with for a match and that is sure to happen as there will be a Mustang in the future of GT3 in 23. Competition is gonna be tight and fun to watch. Road course competition is the ultimate in motorsports entertainment. I can't get enough of it.
ed
Advanced Driver

I think they started with the Voodoo, not the Coyote, for the flat-plane.

hyperv6
Racer

You do know Ford was not the first flat crank either. 

They're doing Flat cranks just for the sound on the street. 

BMD4800
Gearhead

And that’s it, right there.

From an NVH standpoint no sane Engineering team would ever want one in a daily driver, but in our modern era a mustang that has the race car sound makes people look.

This is purely anecdotal, but out here in the south west eating outdoors is a thing. Apparently picnic table dining with lots of people around is fun. Anyway, no matter the location - Scottsdale, downtown Gilbert, the Westgate area, or even PHx, the common theme is this: mustang with a flat plane and aftermarket exhaust drives by, driver gets a little shriek, out come the comments. Almost all are negative.
Conversely, an older V8, even with loud exhaust drives by, no reaction, or the occasional smiles. Almost never a negative comment, save for the tofu types.
CarbonSteel70
New Driver

It's nothing like that piece of Ford junk. A scalpel compared to a steak knife. Look at a comparison of the two instead of being lazy and assuming.

Oldroad1
Technician

When Ford puts together an engine to match the LT6 it will be every bit as impressive it just won't be as ridiculously complicated. They beat Ferrari's quad cam 48 valve V12s 4 years in a row at Le Mans with single center cam push rod 16 valve engines. The last two years when FIA mandated displacement reductions down to 5 liters, the Fords twice beat the Ferraris and Porsches with a 289. Ford will enter IMSA again in 23 joining GT3. This time with a Mustang. Ford would not post entry if they didn't think they could compete. Plus Ford won't be advertising their choice of power trains and post the technical data all over classic car social media web sites either.
930Flachbau
Intermediate Driver

Please! The formula for engine displacement limits in FIA used in Le Mans is based on Volumetric Efficiency formulas that allow 5, 6, 7 liter pushrod engines to compete against the 3 liter quad cammed engines. Two-valve pushrod engines have a lower Volumetric Efficiency than OHC 4-valve engines. OHC engines rev higher, have higher VE's which allow for pushrod engines to compete at increased displacement, lower RPM's. Your statement that Ford can and will produce an engine less complicated, more efficient and more powerful than the Z06 engine is laughable. Are they going to call that the Mustang/Cobra engine as well? How are those Eco-Boost engines doing? Don't they sound wonderful? lol What a joke. And please don't tell us about how the Ford GT's dominated Le Mans last time. They deliberately brought the cars in late to be inspected by the FIA. The BoP the FIA factors in by the organization could not be determined. Ferrari, Porsche and Chevrolet Racing Teams raised a stink for the favoritism granted to Ford.

930Flachbau
Intermediate Driver

Thank you for the fine intricate details on this marvelous engine. Coming to a street near you........
JSievers
Instructor

The LT6 is an engineering masterpiece, and I would expect it to be reliable given Chevy's experience with a similar engine in IMSA competition. Well done GM. Any chance of offering this powerplant in the Camaro at a more accessible price point?
ed
Advanced Driver

Right.  I am looking forward to seeing the IMSA mechanics at my dealership.

MeJ
Advanced Driver

Why did GM have to wait until the end of the ICE engine era was so close, to make this masterpiece of an engine??? I've aspired to Corvette's all my life and owned (3) and now that it is near the pinnacle...Battery power is starting to take over.
Sad...
hyperv6
Racer

Money they just never had the money. 

TacoSueno
Intermediate Driver

only dweebs want the electric toys
BMD4800
Gearhead

Here’s the thing, ICE and electric boost can be a sound performer. Conversely, when properly devised a good hybrid has fuel mileage and flexibility unseen in the current BEVs.
SilentBoy741
Instructor

So it's safe to say they're introducing the 54 Rocket Engine? Mine's a '56, but what a great mill!
TrustyRusty
Detailer

The article is wonderful, except for the serious mistake in the last sentence. The sun IS NOT setting on the internal combustion engine; it is rising with gusto, eclipsing any ill though out plans for universal electrification. IMHO
hyperv6
Racer

Development of ICE has been reduced and even cut at a number of companies. While it may not vanish for a while it is in decline. 

mbr2000
Advanced Driver

But I think companies that are dropping ICE cars are digging themselves a hole. Just now I was looking at Ford's website, and only one vehicle is shown under the heading "CARS" -- the 2021 Mustang. It's interesting they don't think of the Mach-E as a car, but instead list it under "Electrified" with their boring little SUVs. Might as well have called the group "Trendy Electric Appliances." Let's wait to see if these marketing geniuses have guessed correctly. Something we probably won't have to wait on is brown-outs while the green new-dealers struggle to build enough wind turbines and solar panels to replace evil natural gas and (gasp!) nuclear power stations.
hyperv6
Racer

You are welcome to your opinion but I would not bet on it. 

Honolulu
Intermediate Driver

So much detail, and crammed in the middle of the car.... gonna be a real (unprintable) to service when something goes off. Maybe their IMSA race engines hold together, but those are regularly and extensively serviced by professionals. This one's gonna cost you, bub.
mfp4073
Advanced Driver

Yep, and the vibration issues over long term? Maybe its not supposed to last that long to worry about. Don't have enough information about the vibration except that it was bad enough to cause some redesigns.
miata93
Advanced Driver

I hope that one can change the serpentine belt without having to pull the engine.
AustinCobra
New Driver

Flat Crank & and dual overhead cams - "This arrangement is standard in racing and Italian supercar V-8s"....Hmmmm...Oh yeah, and the Ford Voodoo 5.2L Mustang GT350, since 2015. WELSOME TO THE PARTY! Now were did I put that plug for my 2.1 sec 0-60 Tesla sedan?

All trolling aside. That is one beautiful engine! Can't wait to hear it purr.
ed
Advanced Driver

I am on the waiting list, but my concern remains. After watching the mechanic at my local GM dealership try to figure out how to change the oil in my C6 LS7 with the dry sump, I cannot imagine what service challenges this new engine will raise for the 'legacy' mechanics.
miata93
Advanced Driver

I would be concerned also, especially if they have trouble figuring out service on an earlier less complicated model. My guess is that any head work like cams, valves etc. would just have to be shipped back to Bowling Green KY.
hyperv6
Racer

No that is all done in the dealer. 

If things are that messed up they generally just replace the engine. They do not send cars back to the factory. 

What they do with those engines are to send them back to Detroit to inspect and fix issues.

 

My intake tube blew out on my LNF turbo. It popped the map out. I ended up contacting GM and the engineer in charge of their program on questions about the Tune I added. 

He returned my E Mail with a call 5 min later. He sent be some diagrams and when I spoke of the intake tube he asked me some questions and told me he had the tube. 

They found the tube was a early production part the vendor did not get the plastic weld right on. It worked at 16 psi boost but not at 23 psi boost. 

It was cool how the worked with me and also another friend on our cars and to know they followed up as they did. 

Most people at automakers are very caring and responsible people. 

But every company has sins in their closets too. 

hyperv6
Racer

With the lack of techs today I am afraid to let them change oil in my wife’s SUV. 

mbr2000
Advanced Driver

The oil change "jockeys", as they're called, are in no way technicians. My buddy at a GM dealership says the title "technician" really does apply to the mechanics these days, because they must be familiar with the dozens of computer controlled systems, sensors, and actuators. At least some of those guys will be ready to jump right in to the Z06 engine.
joesurfer
Intermediate Driver

With 12.5:1 compression you'll have to find some near-race fuel for that baby. Don't know if 93 octane will give it its full potential.
hyperv6
Racer

No! In todays engines between knock sensors, oil cooling broom below and direct injection the combustion chamber is low enough in temperature to permit high compression. 

Note higher compression burns cleaner and a side effect is making more power. 

My LNF Turbo ran 11 to one compression and 23 pounds of boost for 300 hp from 2.0 liters. These same technologies permitted that all on pump gas. 

Oldroad1
Technician

Ethanol keeps the chambers cooler too. When gas was real back, way back, Tetra Ethyl Lead was the best liquid heat exchanger of all. When I first started driving I remember you could get unleaded regular but that was it. Stations still sold leaded regular at 91 octane and premium at 98 octane. What I remember the most about old gas was the smell. It smelled good. There wasn't any vapor recovery systems back then.
hyperv6
Racer

Yes lead did the job. 

Ethanol does the job to in making power but it also hurts mpg and will eat things up on older cars and power equipment. 

Oldroad1
Technician

YA, rubber/hoses and carburetor parts/ needle & seat and pump diaphragms on Holleys. I've found that a couple of ounces of Marvel in the tank provides relatively cheep preservation against alcohol damage.
BMD4800
Gearhead

Modern rebuild kits have ethanol resistant parts. There are good ethanol resistant hoses too. Drop those tanks and replace the hose from the sender to the metal line.
Oldroad1
Technician

Your right.
mbr2000
Advanced Driver

A then there's modern combustion chamber design that requires less spark advance. But 12.5:1 at 110% VE is effectively 13.75:1, right?
BMD4800
Gearhead

The higher pressure DI and latent heat of vaporization from the liquid fuel evaporating in the higher pressure chamber cools the charge.
High compression can live with 87 octane in a conventional sense, but the variables (IAT, load, grade,etc) are more difficult to overcome.
Unless the engine is knocking and pulling timing, there is virtually no power difference with more octane. Lots of folks would get race gas and add more timing. Some went faster, most didn’t. The combo wants what it wants. From the factory they have millions of hours of R&D on these. Just use what they suggest.
Straight6Heroes
New Driver

Great article on a great motor. I liked the photos too...
Make me lust yet another machine.

One quote in the article left me confused
"Direct fuel injectors are located outboard of the exhaust valves to promote air-fuel mixing as air tumbles into the combustion chamber."

I would have thought the direct fuel injectors would be located outboard of the intake valves...but I probably missed some steps in the evolution of direct injection...


miata93
Advanced Driver

My guess is that the location of the injectors was an accessibility issue. When you look closely at the cutaway photo showing the intake valve, the injector appears to shoot the fuel across the combustion chamber toward the intake valve stem.
Rick2
Instructor

I doubt any of you fan boys will be changing your own fuel pumps when they go out since they are buried under the intake.
SGL
Intermediate Driver

So you have to rev it to the moon. How very…. Honda. Give me a torque curve flatter than Kansas that goes down to 2000 RPM… THEN maybe interesting things can happen above 6000 too. But if it’s got nothing below 4000, I’d rather have blower or turbo that does unless I was going for a pure track car. Imagine “Hellcat in a C8.” Wait, that should be the next Viper...
hyperv6
Racer

Actually the torque comes in hard around 2900 rpm and holds to 8900 rpm. This is a very flat torque curve and the car is geared to take advantage of it. 

 

Here are some factual numbers. 

304 FT LBS at 1500 RPM

402 FT LBS at 2900 RPM

459 FT LBS at  6300 RPM

402 FT LBS at  8600 RPM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turbo4Joe
Intermediate Driver

"A Landmark".....??
Chevy finally builds their own all aluminum overhead cam V8 and puts in a never heard of, never seen before, flat plane crank. Woweee!
You act like it is all new engine technology! (It is to Chevy...lol)
Now the question is:
Besides rich old farts and Chevy dealership owners, who is going to take delivery of one within the next 18 months??
hyperv6
Racer

Good things come to those who wait. They 

warrene
Detailer

I'd never buy one until a good number of other guys have, and have put some serious miles on, GM has made a lot of mistakes, this could chalk up another such so who knows. Nothing like wear & tear to bring out the worst in things, anything in aluminum scares me, excess expansion/contraction, we'll be waiting to find out. Old saying goes; Only good place for alum' is pop cans & airplanes.
GeorgeWA
Intermediate Driver

Hopefully GM has learned a thing or two about Aluminum engines since the Chevy Vegas days