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Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

GM promises to be all-electric in the U.S by 2035 | Hagerty Media

General Motors announced today that it plans to be carbon neutral by 2040 and that it will, "eliminate tailpipe emissions from new light-duty vehicles by 2035." Spearheading that goal is the introduction of 30 all-electric models over the next five years, along with a commitment to invest $27 billion in electric and autonomous vehicles over the same time.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/gm-promises-to-be-all-electric-in-the-u-s-by-2035/
244 REPLIES 244
ACE_Sonoma
Detailer

"There are electric and Tesla charging stations from coast to coast already."

Fact Check: TRUE

There is also 3,000 MILES from Coast to Coast!

 

"A fast charge takes 15minutes at the electric charging stations."

Fact Check: Somewhat True, aka, 'Depends'

We all know from experience what that 'Fast Charge' does to Battery Life, which is why we invented Trickle Chargers with integral regulators...

 

"A fully charged electric car will rival a gas car in range."

And when AAA shows up to your, 'between stations' accidental temporary destination; do they give you a quick 5gals, or a 'Jump'?

 

There are still people who argue the Horse-drawn vs Horseless-Carriage, and BOTH are right, so this ICE vs EV debate will rage for at LEAST 100yrs...

 

What I don't care for is the Politicization of the concept with the Dictatorial attitude, recently expressed by a State Governor on another Hot Topic that, "It's coming, whether you like it or not!"

DAY
Intermediate Driver

HAHAHAHAHAHA
MoparMan
Advanced Driver

2035, fourteen years from now. An awful lot lot of things WILL change between now and then. I feel that these are "tailored for the moment" statements that the successors to those making these statements won't have any obligation to keeping them. Whatever happened to the "skateboard" platforms that GM said was going to be a "revolution", and in production by 2010?!?
Rix911
New Driver

While it is a laudable goal, I guess, will the electric grid be able to support the demand? Will the mining of the minerals that go into batteries continue to be ignored? Will those minerals run out as will petroleum? Not to mention the question about how the political class will abuse the population with taxation for miles, for battery disposal or for hazardous disposal or recycling. Has this been thought through or is it the usual knee jerk reaction of the partially and ill informed?
Mickthomas
Pit Crew

This is the key. The infrastructure to electrify the nation to the point this is functional is daunting. Look at the infrastructure investments over the past 50-60 years, if you exclude new housing developments there has been almost none. Heck the folks in Gary Indiana are still drinking out of lead pipes. .. .
Timbo76
Detailer

If there is a demand for more electricity, private companies (that form the vast majority of power distribution in the US) will likely respond.
TonyT
Instructor

The main energy providers here on the west coast can't keep up with the summertime demand for A/C as it stands now (rolling blackouts.) Without a huge increase in energy production, this is going to be a dark future (no pun intended.) Not wise to put all of one's eggs in one basket.
OldCarMan
Instructor

But NO green Nukes! These private companies are often monopolies, controlled by a political AG who does NOT look out for the consumer who don't support his campaigns...
ACE_Sonoma
Detailer

Here in California, PG&E is a 'private company' and believe me, brother, they ARE responding!

OldCarMan
Instructor

...and in Flint MI. But they settled with the residents for $638M, with 1/3 to lawyers, they could have bought them all new housing, demoed the old and solved the problem with money left over!
DAY
Intermediate Driver

And let's not forget the ROLLING BLACKOUTS in COMMIEFORNIA every year already! Imagine adding a few million electric cars onto that failing electric grid! HAHAHAHAHA
Timbo76
Detailer

Why would the mining of battery materials be ignored? That makes no sense. All minerals and current fuel choices will run out eventually, but not solar and wind power. The current powers already impose an abuse on the population for taxing gasoline, for tire disposal, etc. EV batteries are recyclable and last a decade or more. Ranges are increasing every year.
Hymie60
Intermediate Driver

Solar power, really. The big push for a large solar facility from the Obama years was a total failure here in Calif. Drive through the area near Palm Springs and see how attractive all those wind machines look.
ACE_Sonoma
Detailer

One word...

 

SOLYNDRA

OldCarMan
Instructor

Put the bong down! You can't build or afford enough wind/solar. Try reading something that tells you the truth! The Green Movement is a scam!
ACE_Sonoma
Detailer

Minerals used for current battery construction are costly to mine and process, and, so far, have not proven to be as environmentally friendly as some would have us believe.  Both Wind and Solar are 'passive' and sound simple, but are, in fact, complicated, costly, complex, and expensive to maintain.  While I, or any thoughtful person, sees the need to develop, DEVELOP alternative energy sources, we must NOT rush them to market in exchange for abandoning proven, reliable, and cost-effective solutions already in place.  The Covid debacle is a great example, just sayin'...

Dave404
Detailer

I'm ready to go electric but won't settle for a self driving car that is largely controlled by the manufacturer as in the case of Tesla. Just make it a normal vehicle with privacy, no OnStar etc. They talk about SUVs and full size trucks. How about the now popular midsize trucks like the GMC Canyon? Also, I can charge at my house but what about the millions of people who live in apartments or houses without driveways?
Olduglycarl
Pit Crew

This is the worst thing we could be doing right now. Our magnetic poles are moving toward each other, weakening our magnetic shields and heading for magnetic reversal. (this is a repeatable natural cycle), Our shields are already 20% to 25% weaker, It's not going to take much of a sunspot or filament eruption to take out our grid and everything electronic/electric.
Dumb...really, really dumb!
Keep up with that news on suspicious0bservers.org and on youtube.
Iso_Grifo
Advanced Driver

Any time you put most of your eggs into one centralized basket, you're in trouble. And it's not just natural phenomenon that's the danger, either. Way back in the 1970's everybody relied on gas from one area in the world. A history lesson that needs to be relearned.

ACE_Sonoma
Detailer

And once was not enough, we had to take a Refresher Course!

JohnH
New Driver

Don’t forget mileage taxes. California is closing power plants and sometimes shuts down the grid in high winds. Electric cars may be fine around town, but don’t plan on touring the country. Or is that the big plan?
Iso_Grifo
Advanced Driver

Didn't you hear? They're going to build more trains. AOC put that in the Green New Deal. She said you're even going to be able to get on a train and go to London in the glorious new future.

OldCarMan
Instructor

Send her to Mars, one way!
DAY
Intermediate Driver

And that's where they want us, in cities for total control.
Farm966
Pit Crew

Carbon credits? What a scam. Who are you paying for these carbon credits? Who put them in charge?
Iso_Grifo
Advanced Driver

Back to the Al Gore superscam again...

spoom
Technician

It goes to the folks who ended up with American mfg jobs. They need us to pay for making our pollution for us. Ignore's Gore's 1 year $30k utility cost, and having his pool heater on when in Europe. Nothing has to make sense, it just has to be obeyed. The Red Guard thought they were going to get extra rice, also.
ed
Detailer

Here's the question no one will answer regarding autonomous vehicles: I'm riding along to my destination and the vehicle I own but I am not driving runs over a pedestrian in a cross walk. Who gets sued? If the answer is 'the manufacturer', then I think the rush to sell autonomous vehicles will slow down; if the answer is 'the owner', then the rush to buy autonomous vehicles will slow down. I assume most would go after the manufacturer since they have deeper pockets, and no amount of disclaimers can offset the design -intention- to provide a driverless vehicle.
Mickthomas
Pit Crew

This has actually already been discussed by Mercedes. Given the choice, MB places the safety of the driver over the pedestrian who steps in front of the car - because duh, the driver bought the car. It's also been decided that the mfg is responsible. One, because the driver is not in control. Two, because the mfg has billions to pay out in damages, where with the driver you may get a bag of what-a-burgers and put them in jail for 5 years.
ed
Detailer

I'm guessing that most manufacturer's do not view 'billions to pay out in damages' as a mitigation factor for liability.
Tom9716
Intermediate Driver

Of course they don’t, because they’ll just roll the litigation costs into the price of the vehicles.
OldCarMan
Instructor

The regulatory agencies all have massive multi-million $ fines that go to the victims. NOT! It goes to the bureaucracy to keep sustaining itself...
wrigleyville
New Driver

Don't necessarily disagree....but....this is why many are creating their own OEM Insurance companies....Mercerdes is doing it now. Doesn't mean they will accept the liability....but they are thinking of this...
hyperv6
Gearhead

Ok I know this is a hot topic with car people but it is time we start dealing with this like adults. 

 

#1 GM is going to be relevant and with this more so as there is much more to this than hugging a tree. 

 

The auto industry as a whole is dying. They are building millions of cars but development and material cost are climbing so fast and the market is no longer growing like it once was. The formula the industry was built on is no longer viable. 


But with electronics once past the development stage becomes cheaper and more profitable. Advances are cheap too. How is the tech industry making so much money?Electronics. 

 

While the automakers are saying they want to be carbon free it makes for good PR vs saying we want to make money like the tech industries. That is the cold harsh truth of all this. 

Now the colder harsher truth is most automakers will have to partner up with a larger company and or even sell out to another company to survive. Some will also not survive. 


There are only a few companies able to go this alone or to take on partners to cut cost. GM is one. VW is another. 

 

The future is like this. With global regulations forcing this in many countries and even now states you either have to get in soon or you will be too far behind to catch up. This is much like Kodak in how others went Digital early and Kodak just kept on making film with little Digital investment. Look at Kodak today, They are not what they once were. Blackberry once was the go to phone but they lagged behind when the screened cell phones arrived.  Today they are far behind. 

 

Yes there are going to be some challenges. But many will be resolves as this will take place over 15-20 years, Just look at what we were driving and using for cell phones 20 years ago.

 

Please understand that range is not a real issues anymore. GM and others  have  batteries coming soon that will do 600 miles. Charging times have improved but will continue to improve. In time the charging will be in the same time a fill of gas would take. Then gas stations will have islands with chargers. No worry for the apartment dwellers.

 

There has been much to over come and much that will be over come in the coming few years. Battery prices are coming down and will make EV cars cheaper. Yes the first ones will be expensive like the Hummer but it will also bring back the investment cost faster  than a Bolt. This will lower the cost of other models as the one took the hit first. 

 

In building these vehicles they will have less parts. Less parts mean shorter assembly and smaller plants with less employees which means lower cost. The parts also will be shared between platforms so less development cost. Finally no more EPA testing and many systems added to the present cars to make them compliant. 

 

The Globalization is more about oil and not saving the planet. It comes down to money. 

 

I am not a tree hugger and I make my living in the performance industry so I have a vested interest here to keep up with what is going on and why.

 

The American auto industry is down to two companies and one is not well. Ford has struggled with money for a long time and it is not getting better. Just look at the stock. Even their EV Mach E was seen testing at the GM proving grounds before it was released. That should be telling. 

 

So while we can all come up with all these excuses and personal feelings, this EV storm is coming like it or not. It is time we all need to face it. I use to be a denier but it no longer can be denied. 

 

GM is going to bring EV products but not drop ICE models till their sales are down. GM has years marked but they can be adjusted based on developments of tech and buyers migrating over. If you look at the future models most ICE models are still in the plans for a good while yet. Ice is not going to go totally away anytime soon. There will always be some limited ICE for some markets and needs. As I have said 20 years is a long time. 

 

If you want to think this is not going to happen that is fine. But we used to think there is no way a 4 cylinder would out sell the V8 and that the Sedan will be a rare vehicle in the market too. 

 

TinaBird
Intermediate Driver

I agree with where you are going with this in general, but there are still two major issues that I believe aren't adequately addressed.
#1 - our electric utility grid in most parts of the U.S. has a difficult enough time keeping up with current peak demand. At summer peak times, we are often at a power deficit and then must initiate rolling blackouts ("Flex Days" as they call them in Calif.). If we are going to add millions of cars pulling even more power off this grid, we are going to have to invest millions/billions into it to support the demand and distribution. It is entirely feasible to do this, but who exactly is going to be forking out this money for the electrical infrastructure?
#2 - the rechargeable batteries in these vehicles use many exotic and/or precious metals in their production. The mining operations of these batteries will have to increase a significant amount to keep up with the demand for these large automotive batteries - in addition to the mobile phone battery supply which will likely increase as well. Maybe we will have more mining operations (e.g. China) step up to the plate and meet demand, but it could be a major struggle. Who will step up to handle recycling of the slug of used auto batteries that's sure to come?

Our transportation infrastructure and trade economy has been built on petroleum. I'm not saying that is good or bad, I'm just saying that we have built our entire world around the ability to carry a relatively large amount of energy in a small volume and be able to "recharge" it quickly. Outside of the vehicles themselves, a lot of things must change for electrics to be a viable part of our world. Electrics may, and likely will, catch up with ICE in terms of usefulness, but there are a lot of details I think are being ignored to make them completely viable in every space where ICEs are currently used.

ICEs took over from steam in a relatively organic way because they truly offered a better product for consumers. Now electrics are being forced through regulation to take over ICEs instead of letting consumers make the choice based on performance.
hyperv6
Gearhead

Contrary to what some say the California grid will support this. Also they will leverage this for federal support to improve it. Look for them not to remove gas fired plants as planned.

The 600 mile batteries exist. Just cost needs addressed and it will be.

As for your other points Horses were not replaced overnight. Same here for ICE. Heck the Amish still use them here where I live for transportation.

People look at this and just don’t factor in all that is going on.

I am not going EV soon but at least I am keeping fully informed because it is not going to go away.
Lightning1
Detailer

California doesn't want to build nuke plants or coal/oil electric. If they can't keep a reliable electric grid now, how will the addition of E/V make their problems better?
OldCarMan
Instructor

Stay informed, because the socialists will plan things for you.
DAY
Intermediate Driver

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Tom9716
Intermediate Driver

Excellent summary of the “unanswered” questions, and it’s nice to see a #2 after starting with a #1 :-). It’s almost funny that a few years ago everyone was concerned about running out of fossil fuels and now we’re thinking about running out of the exotic compounds needed to create the car batteries. It’s the same problem from a different perspective.
drhino
Instructor

hyperv6, interesting points— especially regarding the reasons for the switch. Logical and well reasoned. I think the range issue is still a problem; and the infrastructure reboot is a much larger hurdle than you indicate. Not to mention the electric power production and battery material/disposal points raised elsewhere in these responses. I am heavily biased against electric cars; because I love a great sounding internal combustion engine with a manual transmission— but I appreciate your comments. Food for thought.
hyperv6
Gearhead

I am with you. I own a mid engine car I love to listen to. I am not buy an EV anytime soon but working in the industry I look at this with an independent eye.

Some People need to learn this is coming no matter what they want to believe. There is just so much more involved here than saving a tree that is driving this.
OldCarMan
Instructor

It is all about political theater and control of the population. Look how easy it was the last 11 months! Follow the money. It is NOT about the car companies, either. The big p[layers and China stand to gain the most from controlling the distribution of power- electric and political! The technology is being FORCED on the public, for the "Public Good" and so-called Climate Change (nee Global Warming), that we are doing this for the planet. Horse-puckey!
DAY
Intermediate Driver

You're absolutely right! Get people in Short Range Electric vehicle and they stay close to the city, and under control. THAT'S IT.
OldCarMan
Instructor

Without MAJOR Federal money (aka taxpayer money), the infrastructure will languish. Private companies will not build without a guaranteed ROI. Of course political mandates will fix all of that, until the next election...
Iso_Grifo
Advanced Driver

It's a lot of work trying to defend the indefensible, isn't it?

hyperv6
Gearhead

It is what it is. You either understand it or get out of the way as this deal is coming no matter if we like it or not.

 

Auto enthusiast like most passionate people think with their hearts. Today we are few in numbers and the world is not think with their heads. When passion is challenged by money the money always wins. 

Like today we have a bunch of plain CUV models dominating sales as utility has taken over style and passion with average buyers. 

MATTMERICA
Instructor

Gm is a sh!tshow, and it has been for years. How many official bankruptcies have they had? How many unofficial? The current roster of execs is a joke, and if anybody is relying on GM to set the market or even set expectations, that is a leap of biblical proportions. Once you peel back the markets and segments that this "plan" will do away with, there will be nothing left for GM. You mention VW and GM - does GM actually think it can compete with VW? Just having market share means nothing. GM may have some cash (and not much), but they don't have styling, they don't have a young demographic, and they don't a real plan. If there is one market (read state) in the US that you need to win, it is CA - and they can't even keep the power on during the summer and for wind storms lol. So GM better have some serious back room back up plans, because they will be lucky to be around in 14 years, and they need a 5 or 7 team parlay to work out for them to meet even 50% of their 2035 boast.
hyperv6
Gearhead

No longer the same GM.

The Cleveland Browns sucked for years too but that is not going to matter in the next few years as they will be a contending team as others like Pittsburgh and Dallas struggle.

Past history is just that past.
hyperv6
Gearhead

By the way the VW comment was to point out GM and VW were in place to lead here. Many others will struggle to catch up and or survive.

Honda did not join what GM is doing just on a whim. They did not have the cash to go it alone. Now they will be using GM EV platforms.

They make few mistakes and they liked what they saw.