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Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

Blame Europe for "socially acceptable" hybrid hypercars

The default start mode on Ferrari's SF90 Stradale is silent. Keep going without firing up the V-8, however, and you'll run out of juice after just 16 miles. That's probably not enough to get you to the local coffee shop, let alone your nearest cars and coffee meetup, yet this level of EV range is typical for today's hybrid hypercars.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/blame-europe-for-socially-acceptable-hybrid-hypercars/
83 REPLIES 83
nielen
Pit Crew

If I understand the testing workaround it sounds like another VW diesel type scheme for which some of their top management were summarily arrested and indicted. And the company was fined in the billions. It seems like all EV is the only currently acceptable solution for CO2 mitigation (Hydrogen does not seem to be making progress, probably due to infrastructure deficiencies). Porsche already has the Taycan although it’s limited to a 200 mile range. So everyone else just has to follow. Hybrid engines on exotic vehicles is probably not a good idea since they will break and cost the owner thousands of dollars before 5,000 miles.
WeisPanzer
Intermediate Driver

According to the EPA (a.k.a. the government that gets $#!* wrong all the time) the Taycan's range is only 200 miles, but real-world use shows it's actually 300+ (https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html). Just another reason to ignore the same government that told us lies about the Wuhan flu, WMD in Iraq, global warming, the southern border, ethanol in our gas, Jeffrey Epstein, and men getting pregnant...
Gary_Bechtold
Specialist

I don't mind the hybrids but the plug in hybrids are just stupid. Tether the car to get 20ish miles maybe of EV range? Why bother.
JSievers
Instructor

Does hybridization help exotic car manufacturers game the system? Certainly, but it also offers improved fuel economy and reduced exhaust emissions, not to mention the desirable option of driving in all-electric mode - if even for a limited distance. I have found that those who decry electrification of the automobile are predominantly people who have never driven or experienced the smooth and quiet performance of an EV. In addition, we need to consider the serious matter of climate change, with its drastic effects ranging from regular flooding in Miami to the slow but steady disappearance of lakes Mead and Powell, which provide power and water to much of the Southwest. Lest you think I am just another ICE hater, my garage houses a 12-cylinder Italian exotic, a 505-hp domestic sports car, and a twin-turbo V8 luxury sedan. However, as I approach my seventh decade on Earth, I have come to realize that yesterday's technology is increasingly less viable if we hope to leave our children with a livable planet. That's why most of my driving is now done in an EV, and my ICE vehicles see limited use as long-distance transport, or as the toys they have been all along. Over time, I believe we will all come to realize that what we gain through vehicle electrification far outweighs what we have to give up. Besides, ICE cars will always be around, they will just be driven less and less as is the case with collector cars today. I understand that this change is hard for many, but give it time. The automotive future will be a better place.
erne75
Advanced Driver

Europe sucks!!! Who knew?!?!
"How dare you!"
hyperv6
Racer

Best many read up on income equality by the globalist. It sheds light on many things,. 

427sc
Detailer

Yup...
That and the new "Social Credit Score" system that the elites are trying to enact globally.
They are using "the environment" as a tool for tyranny and specifically, global economic control.
Just like China is doing now:
https://nhglobalpartners.com/china-social-credit-system-explained/#:~:text=A%20high%20social%20credi....

This doesn't sound like "Freedom" to me, and it's already working its way through our society. Get in line...
"You'll own NOTHING, and be happy...", as the Davos crowd says out loud now (or actually, they took that off the front page of their site a couple months ago).
miahshodan
Pit Crew

I think these plug-in hybrids are brilliant. 16 miles is plenty for me to get to work, the grocery store, church, etc. and get back. But If I want to drive 300 miles to see family it can do that without running out of juice. Best of both worlds, and you have the torque fill to cover up turbo lag.
I don't want that in my weekend car, but maybe it lets my weeknd car become my everyday car.
1d1a2d2a
Intermediate Driver

Unless you can charge up your electric cars with an on board system, ie. solar panels wind turbines or the like, you will see electricity prices spiking to compensate for the few you own these vehicles. I think anyone you does not see this is blind. Everyone will be paying the added price for electricity.
Highwatermark
Pit Crew

You lost me when you said 16 miles isn't enough to get to the local coffee shop. Might be true if you live on a cattle ranch in Wyoming, but in the suburban/semi-rural area I live in, there are 3 within a mile, and probably 50 within 16 miles. If that's as poorly-researched as your article is, no point in reading it.
ed
Advanced Driver

Didn't a bunch of VW folks have serious trouble about "beating the system"? Why is OK for Bentley?
DADSOLDS_1968
Pit Crew

One question. How do you think electric is created? With fossil fuel, coal, uranium, etc. Don't fool yourself if solar and wind is going to be able to keep up with the load. The only reliable natural source is tidal and that costs a bloody fortune.
You are a short cited fool if you think that electric cars are the answer. Wait till there are landfills brimming with dead battery cells leaking and poisoning every city.
Not going to solve it here but let's do some research.
TY 🙂
Two69Chevelles
New Driver

Isn't the electricity needed to power electric vehicles generated by using fossil fuels? Maybe not in Europe since they use more nuclear power, but certainly in the U.S. I would think.
PeterM
Pit Crew

Like so many things, the automotive world is in a period of radical transition from ICE to electric power. I believe that the electric infrastructure will also change from its reliance on hydrocarbons to cleaner renewable technologies, we will see an increase in charging station infrastructure, and range will improve. Over time, our rides will become cleaner. I am very intrigued by the notion of plug-in hybrids, which offer a pure electric range of 20-40 miles with the assurance that longer trips can be made with gas or a mix of gas and electric power. Volvo offers SUVs, sedans and wagons that can go around 40 miles on pure electric, and get something close to 75 mpg in hybrid mode. I live in the West and while most trips (commute, shopping, etc.) are less than 40 miles, we have a need for vehicles that can go long distance, as well. Plug-in hybrids offer the best of both worlds IMHO.
Gary
Detailer

Love the idea of audio-triggered cameras to ticket the drivers, law enforcement does not seem to enforce this anymore and they are louder and being pushed to the rpm limiter between shifts. The only one who should have to listen to the fake roar of an EV should be the occupants of the car. It can be piped into their stereo inside
Camarojoe
Intermediate Driver

Half the joy of any 'fun" car is the noise, so I agree EV's will be the end of performance. How will Harley Davidson fare here soon? For the OEM's they are on board because it means all new sales, like going from tube TV's to flat screens, a total transformation. It like a freight train coming at us... expect not diesel powered.
Maestro1
Technician

Yes, hyper, but you're also watching the development of a whole new application for cars.
None of it will be easy nor smart; customers will buy designs with short life spans until
egineering settles down and finds an application that works in the real world. And without all
the astronomical pricing. And Rebate nonsense.
And hybrids are a good idea. I drove one. I didn't buy it, but it was surprising in performance and all around driveability. I don't know if that's an answer being ignored.
The car is a Toyota Camry, given to my friend's Wife, who loves it. I had a chance with the
car when she was out of town. I can't get my Lady out of her 200,000 mile Mercedes.
What can I tell you.
Inline8OD
Technician

At the turn of the previous century, 40% of all automobiles were electric, 38% steam, only 22% gasoline, so we're only making a belated U-turn. If we're serious about making the world safe for our internal combustion cars, instead of "yeah but" us/them barroom rants, there are two overarching things we should be focused on:

A 2019 poll of 11,000 scientists reported in the Nov. 5th Bloomberg.com news showed them agreeing overpopulation is the world's biggest problem, despite the consumer-driven media's blackout on the subject, this up from a 2013 poll of 2,000 UN scientists who came to the same conclusion, their words, "bigger than climate."

Contact any member of Congress or the Senate, voice mail, 24/7, at (202) 224-3121, to support UNFPA.org, any and all efforts to make education, contraceptives available to every woman and girl on earth, revise our antiquated, agrarian tax codes from when more babies meant more hands to work the family farm, half of all children dying by age four, to instead encourage only one or two children per family, to adopt if more.
Contact the Pope: Twitter feed: PopeFrancis@Pontifex. Email: info@salastampa.va
Phone: 390669881022, mail: His Holiness Pope Francis, Apostolic Palace, 00120 Vatican City. Tell him that to not encourage adoption over making more babies at this very late date is immoral. He has time to assure his followers dogs go to heaven, he has time for this.

GDP per capita has risen in every nation with declining birthrate since 1950.

According to UN and other vetted international studies, animals raised for meat and dairy produce more greenhouse gas than all the world's cars, trucks, buses, trains, planes, ships combined. In North America, half of all fresh water, an increasingly limited resource, is consumed by meat and dairy animals. So while you're at it, go vegan, per Drs. Neal Barnard, Caldwell Esselstyn, Dean Ornish, Joel Fuhrman (You Tube them).

Being vegan hasn't slowed 77-year-old rodder rocker Jeff Beck nor the world's leading Formula One driver, Lewis Hamilton, in the least.

Ajakeski
Detailer

As soon as politicians come up with another soapbox to stand on, and another lobby to fill their pockets, they'll be pushing some other form of propulsion on us.
Inline8OD
Technician

Yeah, that's it. "The politicians."

 

Nothing to do with our actions, or those of over a third of a billion people in the US, 8 billion globally.

 

Who elects "the politicians?"  Do you vote?


Like the man said, "If you don't like the news, make some yourself."

MustangJim
Technician

In full acceptance of our future I think that this is pretty cool. You get to "tool" around town quietly and not useing gas.. but when you are going on the road or just want to get into it.. the right stuff is there. And while this is on super high priced exotic cars, the tech. does trickle down. I'd be proud to own a Coyote Mustang that is quiet and non fuel burning on local trips. Another advantage I see to this is the frequent local trips that are so bad for our ice cars. I can't count the times, no matter what I intended that I start and stop my car well before full warm up. So much better to not worry, do your local trips on e power and then get on that highway on ramp and do a nice ice blast. Let it trickle on down! But I do agree with hyper v6, compliace is all b.s. I just think the tech is cool.
SAG
Technician

Time for 'exotic car' builders to drop
_off the grid & sell outside "Gov. mandates".
No way in Hell is some "D-mA-s" politician going to tell me I can't drive my '67 Maserati,
because it burns 'Petrol'.
Kind of like the 'right to bear arms'.
Those of You who want the 'EV' is Good.
Don't deny us _ that don't
SAG
Technician

Find some old "VIN' un-used.
Sell them that way.
They'll pass "DOT"
Ha.
SAG
Technician

Carol Shelby
ran that game
Inline8OD
Technician



Yep, them thar goldarned politicians.

Nothing to do with our actions, or those of over a third of a billion people in the US, 8 billion globally.

Who elects "the politicians?" Do you vote?

Like the man said, "If you don't like the news, make some yourself."

Rustednutz
New Driver

I once waited in line and bought an Al Gore book at a book signing of his just so I could hand him an envelope. (not a fan by the way) Without zero population growth we are all doomed to a lesser future and meager attempts at conservation would all fail in the end. NO ONE wants to talk about that. I don't believe we can out tech the impact of rising populations. Personally I have 4 kids, 11 grand children and 1 great grand child. Not good. I have no room to talk while driving antique cars. It is believed that China has more than 17,000 fishing ships/boats cleaning out the ocean and they keep telling us to eat fish. Point is childless people are my new heroes. The rest is B.S.
Inline8OD
Technician

Good points. Thank you. That's why the scientists cited above agree overpopulation is far and away our biggest problem, despite the consumer-driven media's blackout on the subject. And apparently, Hagerty, who sees more people as more policies.

EVs and the rest of it are tantamount to Band Aids on a patient hemorrhaging in the ER.
To Al Gore's credit, even he has long since admitted corn-based ethanol a boondoggle.
Henry Ford intended his Model T and Fordson tractor, by 1920 comprising fully half of all cars and tractors on the world's roads and fields, to run on agwaste ethanol, as in Brazil,  the only major nation on earth to never have been at war the past two centuries, not that they're angels.

Henry Ford thought it "folly" to burn petroleum, which he thought an excellent lubricant. But John D. Rockefeller controlled over 85 % of the nation’s bulk oil shipments, so with that infrastructure in place, prices low as a dime a gallon, Ford went along with gasoline, as did Charles Nash, GM, Hudson, Maxwell, Studebaker, Dodge, Auburn, Reo, Packard and the hundreds of other automakers then in business, large and small.

We're all the same DNA, star dust, and who's to say if not born in 1950, 2020 or 2025, might not be born in 2750, 4220, or 16825?

There's but a tenth the life in the sea, fount of all life, as in 1950;

most of the South American rain forest, what Dr. Helen Caldicott calls "the lungs of the earth,"  Amazon dot gone at present rates of  destruction by the late 2030s, much of that for cattle feed so Americans can save another nickle on a burger;

   most mammals not bred for human consumption or companionship  extinct or nearly so by this century's end.

 

If your kids, grandchildren and great grandchild as thoughtful as you, there's hope.



WeisPanzer
Intermediate Driver

I think your fellow Hagerty columnist Jack Baruth nailed it here: Avoidable Contact #93: What if you held a mandatory EV party and nobody came? https://www.hagerty.com/media/category/opinion/avoidable-contact/
Verneoz
Intermediate Driver

"Blame Europe for “socially acceptable” hybrid hypercars." The whole narrative (socially acceptable, green energy, social justice, sustainability, renewable energy, et al) surrounding the climate change agenda is a hoax and a folly. The climate change agenda is part of the larger agenda of The Great Reset. What is that? It is corporate social justice activism aimed to choke off free market capitalism and transform the world economy to communist capitalism (a la communist China). The World Economic Forum is its executive agent. Excellent facts backing what I've said can be found in the best-selling book "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Climate Change (The Politically Incorrect Guides)," by Marc Morano
jekirkbride
Intermediate Driver

"Carmakers are under huge pressure to put the internal combustion engine on ice. That is so bad that I wish that I had written it.
GLaing
Intermediate Driver

Wow. I read through all these posts and thing we all need to bring it down a bit. I felt like when I was a kid and my parents were screaming and throwing things over who loved the other more. Let’s respect each other’s thoughts and even errant beliefs if only for “the kids” 🙂
CamaroRacer
New Driver

Hey everyone: Wow. This is the most contentious string of commentary I have run across in a long time, like ever since Yahoo stopped posting comments. Like most Hagerty subscribers I assume we all have more than one car or motorcycle. I have found my own answer to this issue: expand my fleet. As soon as I run across an EV or hybrid that resonates – none so far – I will buy it. Personally I am waiting for an all-electric Shelby GT350. There are some folks in California swapping in salvaged Tesla drivetrains into late model Mustangs. Very intriguing. Expanding my fleet will give me options. For those on the East Coast, you might recall the Colonial Pipeline hack dried up all the gasoline for a week in my area. An EV would have been mighty handy, because I was resorting to public buses and siphoning the Camaro tank’s 93 octane to feed the Shelby tank.…Sounds like unnatural act but that is what I had to resort to. Alternately I read about brown outs and black outs on the West Coast or that grid outage in Texas. I think I’d really need an ICE car in those circumstances. From a resiliency point of view, EV has an additional intriguing possibility and that is recharging the car by solar power. It would take more time, depending on the square footage, and nobody yet to my knowledge makes the higher voltage solar systems, but it is theoretically possible. Making one’s own 93 octane, not so much possibility there. In summation, expanding one’s fleet to include EV or hybrid might save money, might help save the planet, or not, but it will definitely give people more resilient options when facing swings in energy prices and spot-shortages that could leave one transportation-less. Just my ten cents, Ladies and Gents of the Hagerty Club.
andrewjohn007
Pit Crew

"Learn to code as a side hustle so you can expand your fleet", said Mayor Pete and Michael Bloomberg in unison...
wentwest
Intermediate Driver

Buried in a single sentence at the end of the article is a thought (fact?) that just gets lost in all the opinionating that simply goes off into the weeds. Here we are, car fans who have strong feelings about our choices. And is the idea of better performance, faster acceleration and instant full torque not the point? The writer here just mentions it and then tosses it off as meaningless. Well, not to me. If you need to shatter a few windows with the noise of your open pipes then, in my mind, you're not interested in performance, you're a vandal.