"I was around when everyone had to switch from R12 to R134a because R12 was bad for the environment. Now we are being told R134a is bad and have to switch to R1234yf. The patent for R12 expired around the time we switched to R134a."
Thomas Midgley synthesized Dichlorodifluoromethane (Freon-12) in 1930. He applied for a patent almost immediately. That patent had expired by 1951. Freon-12 was in common use for a full forty years after the expiration of this patent.
I call Poppycock!
> I know some will say that it is worth it to save us from running out of oil
They're not saying that. They're trying to save the planet from globull warming. They'd be happy if we ran out of oil.
> range anxiety is a thing, but it is generally overblown in comparison to the actual miles driven per day.
I take it you don't live in the wide-open West, or have to drive 700 miles across the sparse western interior to visit an aging parent. Without efficient ICE cars, people in the West will largely be tethered hamstrung.
Spot on brians356. Last year I made many 700 mile trips from the Midwest to my new home in the Southeast. Time spent at gas stations each trip was less than 10 minutes on sub 11 hour trips. There’s no electric vehicle that could do that. Plus I was stuck a few times on Interstates for long periods of time in sparsely populated areas due to construction or accidents.
Are you supposed to flatbed your EV somewhere when it dies?
Good luck with that. Commenters who say to just enjoy stopping to charge your EV on your leisurely road trip just don’t get the reality of the full range of how vehicles are used.
Good points. For 80%~90% of the time, I'd be fine with an EV, even on a motorcycle. BUT for the times when I WOULDN'T be able to, nobody will want to be the person who had anything to do with making my other vehicles unable to be refilled or at a punitive cost. They problem with punitive measures against innocent people is that when they finally snap...
The issue is too serious for sarcasm, Jack. If the consensus of the scientific community doesn’t count for much to you and your ICE compatriots then consider the research done by the oil cos. that show they were aware of the impact of CO2 emissions on the climate decades ago. Some of the replies after yours smack of a flat-earther mentality. To those who make specious denials based more on opinion than fact, or claim that there’s no proof, I say, that considering the consequences wouldn’t it be better to err on the side of caution?
You must believe that mere best guesses about future climate qualify as scientific theories. Hunches are not even testable hypotheses. There's no proof that humans affect global climate at all. The planet has swung wildly between glaciers and tropical jungles for millions of years. Climate science has become politicized. You can take your fingers out of your ears now, I'm finished.
The burning of fossil fuels affects the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. That’s a scientific fact whether you recognize it as such or not. I’m not saying that it’s the only source of CO2, it’s just the one that we have the most control of. To say that CO2 is not a cause but rather an effect of global warming inverts the correlation of global warming and rising CO2 levels in a way that makes me curious about your research as I’ve yet to see anything that supports such a claim.
It’s obvious you’re not interested as you have nothing to say except make the erroneous claim that saying CO2 emissions contribute to climate change is a “straw argument.”
You’re not saying anything that you didn’t already say in your previous message, i.e. your cart before the horse explanation. The hard fact is that human activity - specifically the burning of fossil fuels - contributes to global warming. If you have research to the contrary please share it with the scientific community who I trust has done their due diligence.
Stolen from elsewhere:
One crisp winter morning in Sweden, a cute little girl named Greta woke up to a perfect world, one where there were no petroleum products ruining the earth. She tossed aside her cotton sheet and wool blanket and stepped out onto a dirt floor covered with willow bark that had been pulverized with rocks. “What’s this?” she asked.
“Pulverized willow bark,” replied her fairy godmother.
“What happened to the carpet?” she asked.
“The carpet was nylon, which is made from butadiene and hydrogen cyanide, both made from petroleum,” came the response.
Greta smiled, acknowledging that adjustments are necessary to save the planet, and moved to the sink to brush her teeth where instead of a toothbrush, she found a willow, mangled on one end to expose wood fibre bristles.
“Your old toothbrush?” noted her godmother, “Also nylon.”
“Where’s the water?” asked Greta.
“Down the road in the canal,” replied her godmother, ‘Just make sure you avoid water with cholera in it”
“Why’s there no running water?” Greta asked, becoming a little peevish.
“Well,” said her godmother, who happened to teach engineering at MIT, “Where do we begin?” There followed a long monologue about how sink valves need elastomer seats and how copper pipes contain copper, which has to be mined and how it’s impossible to make all-electric earth-moving equipment with no gear lubrication or tires and how ore has to be smelted to a make metal, and that’s tough to do with only electricity as a source of heat, and even if you use only electricity, the wires need insulation, which is petroleum-based, and though most of Sweden’s energy is produced in an environmentally friendly way because of hydro and nuclear, if you do a mass and energy balance around the whole system, you still need lots of petroleum products like lubricants and nylon and rubber for tires and asphalt for filling potholes and wax and iPhone plastic and elastic to hold your underwear up while operating a copper smelting furnace and . . .
“What’s for breakfast?” interjected Greta, whose head was hurting.
"Fresh, range-fed chicken eggs,” replied her godmother. “Raw.”
“How so, raw?” inquired Greta.
“Well, . . .” And once again, Greta was told about the need for petroleum products like transformer oil and scores of petroleum products essential for producing metals for frying pans and in the end was educated about how you can’t have a petroleum-free world and then cook eggs. Unless you rip your front fence up and start a fire and carefully cook your egg in an orange peel like you do in Boy Scouts. Not that you can find oranges in Sweden anymore.
“But I want poached eggs like my Aunt Tilda makes,” lamented Greta.
“Tilda died this morning,” the godmother explained. “Bacterial pneumonia.”
“What?!” interjected Greta. “No one dies of bacterial pneumonia! We have penicillin.”
“Not anymore,” explained godmother “The production of penicillin requires chemical extraction using isobutyl acetate, which, if you know your organic chemistry, is petroleum-based. Lots of people are dying, which is problematic because there’s not any easy way of disposing of the bodies since backhoes need hydraulic oil and crematoriums can’t really burn many bodies using as fuel Swedish fences and furniture, which are rapidly disappearing - being used on the black market for roasting eggs and staying warm.”
This represents only a fraction of Greta’s day, a day without microphones to exclaim into and a day without much food, and a day without carbon-fibre boats to sail in, but a day that will save the planet.
Tune in tomorrow when Greta needs a root canal and learns how Novocain is synthesized.