cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

Avoidable Contact #92: Gates and ladders-all the ways old people kill young enthusiasm | Hagerty Media

Everything I need to know about life, I learned from my father and an anonymous psychiatrist. From Dad I learned that "People do what they want to do, and what they say they want isn't important." From the infamous Internet blogger "The Last Psychiatrist" I learned that "You're not a 'good person' because you have good intentions.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/avoidable-contact/avoidable-contact-92-gates-and-ladders-all-t...
357 REPLIES 357
Russ1963Pontiac
Intermediate Driver

You're right about getting under the skin of a Pontiac owner. When I rebuilt my 389 in my 1963 GP I was asked by my local NAPA Dealer why I just didn't drop a crate engine in it. I haven't been back to that NAPA since.
TomP
Pit Crew

You should have replied, "Because they're not offering Rodney Butler's engine as a crate engine yet."  Then walk away and leave them to their Googling...

Russ1963Pontiac
Intermediate Driver

My first car was a 1957 Pontiac Star Chief Convertible 1 owner in nice shape ( no I did not know how lucky I was at the time ). I went to a large car show about 5 years ago and a older gentleman and his wife were looking at a 57 convertible and of I could not pass up standing there and hating myself for selling my 57. This gentleman was pointing out all the things that were not right and everything he complained of I remember my 57 had the same set up. I now have a 1963 Pontiac GP and was at a show when 2 guys came up to judge it and 1 guy pointed to my Tri Power set up and told the other guy it didn't belong on my GP as Tri Power was only on GTO's. I didn't even bother to correct him he probably wouldn't believed me anyway.
TA76
Intermediate Driver

Hmm been to those kind cars and coffees with an older car and hardly anyone will talk to me. It goes both ways
jaysalserVW
Detailer

When at one of the shows--go around to the cars--and talk to the owners. You are going to find "good guys" who are mentors. Hook up with these men and women. Pay attention and learn!
VaCarGuy
Pit Crew

I agree. You have to approach the owners when they are alone, be friendly and I have found most car people will be very talkative. That is why they are there? If they aren't friendly, move on and don't sweat it. The gate/ladder thing is a just a new psychologist term for pay me $400 for the session.
Russ1963Pontiac
Intermediate Driver

I went to a show where a fellow had a really nice 1953 Buick. He would not let anyone get within arms length to the car. When I told him how nice his Buick was it was obvious he did not want to talk about it. I hung around and kept asking questions. When I left this poor guy was in a very bad mood. At anther show me and my wife decided to check out the other cars. This 1 guy had a very nice 57 Bel Air when my wife told him it was nice he snapped back " it should be I've got over $50,000 in the restoration alone ". My wife told him she didn't care how much he had in it and he turned his back to her and walked away.
Thrillseeker
Intermediate Driver

I'm not so old and senile that I believe all that climate change crap they want to use to destroy our hobby. I always encourage the young car enthusiasts. Even though I hate donks and think they are ridiculous I will tell the owner if he did a great job building it. What kind of sourpuss wants to rain on some young car guys parade? Our main concern here is stopping the libtards from destroying our car culture, so young and old need, rice and 'merican to band together before it's all taken away from us by the tyrants that "govern".
ten_second_ride
Pit Crew

How do you figure that any of this is related to politics? Besides, I would bet real money that the majority of people that are guilty of these behaviors are boomer "conservatives" I never see a 22yr old put down another car enthusiast. It is ALWAYS some old fart with with a Chevelle or 'Cuda.  

pjhay30
Pit Crew

Agree. see my post where I talk about a Vets and Corvette show in Minneapolis. Over 50 white guy 20 plus years ago.
TA76
Intermediate Driver

Then you either have not lived long enough or been out enough.
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

The use of "libtards" pretty much guarantees that there is no merit to anything you say.
VehicleNanny
Pit Crew

Correct.  You can feel the disdain in his statements.

ThumperUSMC
Intermediate Driver

Really? Libtards offends you? Oh well, buckle up buttercup, because you most definitely will hear it a lot more. LMAO.
Thrillseeker
Intermediate Driver

The butthurt is real around, shipmate.  LOL

VaCarGuy
Pit Crew

What state has the most strict emissions standards? California. What state is working the hardest to get rid of non-EV cars? California. What state has politicians that cry climate change every 2 seconds? California. Who runs California? Libtards.
jjw
Intermediate Driver

Hey VaCarGuy...  go back to about 1967 and walk down a busied street in LA...  I'll give you a half mile before you're coughing, wheezing and eyes watering...  The problem is many have forgotten...  or maybe just never knew...  I can remember 1969 when the Cuyahoga river in Cleveland spontaneously caught fire because it was so polluted...  The laws were put there for real reasons...  Does this make me a "Libtard"....

VaCarGuy
Pit Crew

Hey jjw...Only you know what you are. As the song goes.."Nobody walks in LA!" To be serious, No, I havn't forgotten as I lived above the LA Harbor back then. You could only see downtown LA after it rained or only on very windy day when the smog was blown out. But, LA "smog" goes back into the 1940's not the 60's...80 years ago. The push for clean air in LA started back then, in the 1940's/1950's and with major industries like 76 Union, Chevron, Texaco etc in the LA basin. The ships coming in and out of LA Harbor would spew black smoke daily. Speaking of fire, I remember 1976 when an 810 foot tanker blew up in the harbor and the entire deckhouse landed on a guard shack on land. The term "global warming" or "climate change" or whatever the choice word of the day is are new evolving terms in the big picture. Gas powered cars today are incredibly clean and classic cars polluting LA are a pimple on an elephants ass when you look at trucks coming from Mexico. I assume you drive Prius or Tesla?
jjw
Intermediate Driver

"Gas powered cars today are incredibly clean"...  Thank you for making my point.

VaCarGuy
Pit Crew

Nonsense....In fact, you have proven my point for me by acknowledging cars today are incredibly clean...thank you. Do you even know electric cars have been around since before 1900? Probably not. There is no need to rid the world of gas powered cars as they get cleaner, more powerful and better mileage. Competition leads to innovation in the free market. The bigger, better, faster most cost effective product wins. So, you are saying laws in 1940 and 1950 led to the Hellcat, Demon, Raptor, Aventador and Veyron? Wow...Quite a stretch don't you think? That is like saying Thomas Edison's invented LED lighting. Alexander Graham Bell invented the IPhone. The Wright Brothers invented the Space shuttle and Boeing 777. Like I said, I grew up looking down at the LA Harbor and the Union 76 refinery ball. Texaco in Wilmington, ExonMobil in Torrance and Chevron in Playa del Rey. Let me know when you live next to a Lithium mining operation to power your Prius. NIMBY?
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

You don’t actually understand that you made his point for him, do you? 

SJacobT
Detailer

You guys are so tumescent for libtards, I wonder if you should dig down a little deeper on that...
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

Damn - I guess that means those “Libtards” are responsible for creating the 5th largest economy on earth then too...

 

Funny - this was about cars and not being a dick to new car enthusiasts - I’m sure your attitude will really help bring new people into the fold.

SJacobT
Detailer

Man, I could feel the veins standing out. You owned that libtard. So. Hard.
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

LOL - it is clear that people that throw “libtard” around are desperately hoping it offends people (which, let’s face it, is kind of pathetic).


I wasn’t offended - sorry - just observing that people that use that term typically lack a certain grasp on reality and thus rarely have a vantage point worth bothering with.

BillyBuick
Intermediate Driver

SEMPER FI
ten_second_ride
Pit Crew

Nobody is offended, we just arent children that only know how to cope by bullying and calling people names on the internet. 

Thrillseeker
Intermediate Driver

🤣

BMD4800
Instructor

Don’t get hung up on the words.

Both sides of the isle aren’t especially supportive of our hobby.

Right to repair, classic vehicle protections, stepped emissions standards, limited waivers, etc.

NADA, manufacturers, they all donate to politicians. The more you need a newer car, gas, Hybrid, EV, the more they win.

Get it?
Russ1963Pontiac
Intermediate Driver

I agree with you on the climate change thing. I also always try to find something to compliment on even though I may not really like the car. It's like rat rods they're not my thing but you have to give it to some of these guys for having a great imagination and some of the cars they start with are pretty useless to try and restore.
Rider79
Instructor

..."libtards"?
csbarkeriii
New Driver

A distinct memory... When the MGB came out with roll up windows all the purists were horrified. Every change brings the same reaction.
jjw
Intermediate Driver

Roll up windows *and* a heater that was standard...
Rbmitch1
Pit Crew

ROLL UP WINDOWS? I have a 1950 Willys Jeepster convertible. You mean that I can get rid of the side curtains?😂
CJinSD
Advanced Driver

Before that, they were horrified by the MGA's envelope body, by the MG-TF's lack of a wooden dashboard, and by the MG-TD's lack of wire wheels. Back in the home market, I wouldn't be surprised if purists weren't offended when the TA showed up without the PB's overhead cam engine. Constantly ignoring their fans didn't ultimately work out for MG, considering they only lasted about 32 years on the US market. We were their reason for existing after WWII, so losing the US mattered.
Utopia1
Detailer

Well said! I know I have been guilty of "gate keeping" for sure. I know I've said things at shows that I later reflected on and realized I shouldn't have. I read a post on Instagram once (I know, I can hear the eyes rolling now but stay with me) about a slammed 4WD truck which I just don't understand the purpose of. However, they said "don't be too quick to judge, it's the same passion with a different outlet". That statement really spoke to me and it made me realize exactly that. We all have different passions but that doesn't make one person's passion better or worse than mine or anyone else's. How does that saying go....can't we all just get along? 🙂
petersalt
Intermediate Driver

"that saying ... can't we all just get along?"
uhhh .. probably not.
BMD4800
Instructor

A group divided is easier to defeat.

This applies everywhere. But even here, where we are all nuts about cars and should have more than enough to discuss outside of politics, well..., no. Even though both sides are actively trying to screw all this up, but pick a side and let’s fight and ignore the common enemy.

DougC
New Driver

Spot on. I might add this parallels to most of the ways we "sun setters" kill communication and interaction with persons younger than we.
EZrodder
New Driver

That was the best dose of the truth I have read in a while!
PRScott
Detailer

Sounds like this could be a snobbish aircooled Porsche owner problem that doesn't really apply to the rest of us
RevsRides
Pit Crew

...I've seen the same attitude from snobby Chevelle, GTO, Vette, Mustang, etc, etc owners...I think it might apply more than you're willing to admit. I have a feeling the ones getting the most upset about this article are the ones that need to listen the most.

Geok86
Advanced Driver

BINGO!!
BillyBuick
Intermediate Driver

I disagree. Getting upset over the article does not mean you are guilty of the points the author makes. It means you don't agree with some or all of his comments. My peeve is that just because you happen to be an "older" member of the hobby does not mean you look down your nose at the younger folks or their cars. Personally I don't care what other people drive. If it makes them happy...then go for it. As long as my car or cars bring me enjoyment, that's what matters to me. An if we want younger people in this hobby then educating them is key. BRING BACK AUTO SHOP IN HIGH SCHOOL.
Bunka
Intermediate Driver

There is a lot of valuable insight here and I will confine my comments to the Porsche crowd. Here is an anecdotal story I heard a long time ago. The setting was a local 356 club meeting. A row of perfectly preserved/restored 356s parked outside and a gaggle of not so perfectly preserved old men sitting inside a restaurant. Finally a younger member, somewhere between 40-50 years old, asked if they had a hard time excepting the introduction of the six cylinder 911 back in the good old days. Only one reply was voiced, "What makes you think we have?" Another gate several years later. We were having a tour of of a local restoration shop. It was winter and all of our 356s were still tucked away waiting for warm weather. We were at the end of the tour, having coffee and fat pills, when I mentioned that I seemed to be the only one that drove a Porsche to this event. Interest was sparked and I was asked where I had parked it as nobody had seen it. I pointed to my Cayenne S right in front of the building. Wow, the general response was, "that thing?" and I did not drive a real Porsche. You know Porsche owners always had a reputation for being snobs and not accepting change. You think?
VaCarGuy
Pit Crew

My 2 cents as a Porsche guy going back over 45 years ago when Porsche owners flashed their headlights at each other. These days people that buy Porsches havn't the foggiest idea how to check their oil. I don't consider a guy that leases a new Porsches every 3 years a Porsche guy/girl. Just a person that likes Porsches. FYI...Many of them think you rotate the air in the tires and add coolant in the oil every 10,000 miles. That is the problem. They are in love with the image it gives them, not the car. This can be said about many that have collectible cars...they won't get their fingers dirty and think their poop doesn't stink. Porsche people have their own distinct groups that don't necessarily play well with each other. You have the 356 group, the early 911 air cooled group, the 912 group, the water cooled group, the 914 group, the 356 outlaw group, the outlaw 911 Magnus Walker wannabe group and the exclusive R-Gruppe that nobody likes...except themselves. I agree...they are a clicky bunch.
sorrktm
Pit Crew

I wouldn't limit this to just the Porsche crowd. One of my cars is a 94 Vette conv.. Not much love for the C4 Corvette in the Corvette community but I enjoy driving it. I also go with a friend, who has a nice 59 Bugeye, to British meets . It's not perfect or 100% original but a really nice driver that he did all the work himself. Amazing how many have to stop and point out that this part is wrong or it's too small of a vehicle or it's just a Sprite and so on. I don't particularly want a Model T Ford or a pre war Duesenburg because they don't interest me but I enjoy looking at them at shows and marvel at the work done to keep them running. And I assume the owner loves them so I spend my money where I want and let them spend their money where they want.
Swamibob
Instructor

Wow... It sounds like the Porschephiles are a lot like the French and the Parisians. ( that's people who reside in Paris, France) Nobody really likes the French and not even the French can stand the Parisians. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Well that should generate some hate mail.
ThumperUSMC
Intermediate Driver

I've seen that from quite a few people my age, (I turn 70 in June), at car shows, or cruises, etcetera. Some of us just don't know how to shut up when the see something that just doesn't meet "their" standards...
tdskip
Intermediate Driver

Only if you don’t read the righteous navel gazing above unfortunately.