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Hagerty
Hagerty Employee

Avoidable Contact #143: All beds bright and beautiful, all pickups great and small

Now, as they used to say on TV, the story can be told: In December I ordered myself a frisky new F-250 Platinum Crew Cab with the 7.3-liter "Godzilla" pushrod V-8 and the oh-so-hip "Dark Marsala" eggplant-colored leather interior. This morning, April 4th, it showed up at my favorite little rural dealership.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/avoidable-contact/avoidable-contact-143-all-beds-bright-and-be...
198 REPLIES 198
goldwolfnhn
Intermediate Driver

I own two square body GM crew cabs a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton dually, along with two station wagons, the wagons are the newer two but even when I only had the trucks I never had any real problems getting things into or out of the beds( let along weight capacity), their biggest problem was fuel economy with one having a 350tbi and the other a 454 on a Quadra jet, and with both having the turbo 400 3 speed autos and 4:10 gears in the rear. But then I got my wagons again both gm one a 87 Pontiac Safari and the other a 1994 Buick Roadmaster Estate wagon with tow pack, they have a much lower "bed" height but the problem is either having to go through the side door or the rear, but they both can beat the truck hands down when it comes to fuel economy the best I got out of the Pontiacs 307 with Quadra jet carb engine being 22 mph while the Buick toting the famous iron head LT1 has gotten an amazing 26.5 mph.
goldwolfnhn
Intermediate Driver

sorry mph is supposed to be mpg
Gary
Detailer

And that is why I bought a new 1999 Dodge Dakota club cab 4x4, v6, 5spd and I still have it! Right size, simple, comfortable and I’ll have it till I die.
positrac401
Pit Crew

Unlike this article my father was very short with words , He would always say when it came vehicles. " They are all a piece of ....... just buy the cheapest one.".
l8_apex
New Driver

As another poster mentioned, just get a full size cargo van. My Promaster 3500 EXT has a bed of about 12.5 feet with a 6'2" height. The floor is also low enough to get in and out with only a little difficulty. Ford and Mercedes have a higher floor height due to their RWD configs.

RJMatt
Intermediate Driver

I was looking for a used pickup for a tow vehicle. Duramax/6 speed is the only thing I "had" to have. I'm "retired, and want to pull a travel trailer. After over a year of looking, I ended up with a 2015 MB GL350 Bluetech. Yes, it needs DEF, but I can park almost anyplace, turn on a dime, have a smooth ride, pull a 7,500lb trailer, and get 23MPG around town. Oh, it is AWD, and does have some of the problems of "electronics age" vehicles, but has been working for me. I use packing quilts on the seats, and put 10' boards, pipes, etc. inside and close the doors.
Jack_Hagerty
Moderator

I used a GL550 a while back to tow for a race in New Jersey. They're great and just like you describe... but I do worry about the cost of fixing them.
JGeske
Instructor

I know what I am about to write opens me up to a crapload of hate on the internet, but I will say it anyways: I own a Honda Ridgeline (a 2021, which replaced my 2017 Ridgeline last year). Now, the world of "truck guys" hates it, but let's review in light of this article and some objective realities. As noted, the GMC Canyon is narrow at 74" compared to the Sierra 2500 at 81.9", the Honda sits between at 78.6". The bed of the Canyon crew short box is only 5"2", the Sierra at 6'10", the Honda is 5'4". Payload of the Canyon is between 1430-1531lbs, the Sierra dominates at 3800-3900lbs, Honda is at 1509-1583lbs. Towing is where the Honda falls famously short, at 5000lbs. I won't speak of off-road, just go watch the Honda at Moab and other videos on youtube, it is capable enough for what most people actually do off-road, but falls short in the most extreme circumstances few truck owners ever do.

Specs out of the way, the Honda provides near full-size cab space, a larger bed than the Canyon (and the 2 way tailgate that works better than the crappy fancy ones on full sizers mentioned in the article), more payload than the Canyon, and better ride and fuel economy than either truck. Furthermore, if we add a half-ton Sierra with the 5'6" bed to the mix, the Honda is nearly identical, with only an 2" shorter bed and 400lbs less payload. Now about that towing, yes 5000lbs is the bottom of the pack (right along with the F150 XL/XLT 4x4 with the 3.3L engine which also only tows 5000lbs) , but you know what, a 18-20 foot camper is about 5000lbs, as is a 28ft pontoon, a 23ft bass boat, a 20ft flat aluminum trailer with 4 atvs or snowmobiles, and a 16ft aluminum enclosed cargo trailer with its max cargo weight inside (all of which I have personally towed in my Hondas). If a Canyon is enough truck for your needs, then unless you happen to have a trailer over 5000lbs or go rock crawling on the weekends, the Honda is actually a larger and more capable truck.
bradfa
Advanced Driver

When I bought my Colorado crew cab long bed (6' 2" long bed) I looked at the Ridgeline. My dad has a Ridgeline. I liked the wider rear seat for my kids and the swing out tailgate and bed trunk are both quite handy. But to get AWD and heated seats (a requirement for me) made the Ridgeline about $7k more than my Colorado at the time. If there had been a Ridgeline EX trim with heated cloth seats for Colorado money, I probably would've gotten the Honda.
JGeske
Instructor

I get that, especially the rear seat room as I have 2 kids in car seats. My main point is that the Honda isn't necessarily the wimp people make it out to be. As for those trims, I agree, they need a butter zone in the trim line up that is currently lacking. My 17 was an RTL-T, but when I went for my 21 I got a Sport. I miss my heated seats, but I prefer cloth the leather and the only way to get the cloth is Sport. At least all trims are AWD since 2019.

BMD4800
Gearhead

Honda automatics and towing aren’t mutually friendly.
JGeske
Instructor

The transmission is a ZF-9HP unit, same one used in the Jeep Cherokee and RAM Promaster, Nissan Pathfinder, Land Rover Discovery, and others from a slew of manufacturers, you can't pin transmission issues (if any) on Honda as it is a widely used unit on the market and not produced or designed by Honda.

bradfa
Advanced Driver

Oh wow! I didn't know that Honda started using ZF transmissions! That's amazingly good news, Honda has quite a crap record of transmission issues on previous larger vehicles (especially the Odyssey). Hopefully the ZFs help to sort out that reputation!
BMD4800
Gearhead

Yeah…amazing what a little research will show a person. 

BMD4800
Gearhead

Actually, I can.  
They overspec and undercool their transmissions.  And the 9HP is new.  Do some research before spouting off your Honda love.  They are great at many things, towing isn’t one of them. 

JGeske
Instructor

Awww, he's cute. Do your own research, the AWD Honda comes with standard HD transmission cooler (always has). The 9HP is not new, it came out in 2013, long before Honda began using it in 2019. Vehicles using it for far longer than Honda (like the Jeep Cherokee) are rated for 6000lbs of towing, so Honda is under that and nowhere near it's max. I get you're sour that I brought facts to your opinions, but don't be a douche.

Jack_Hagerty
Moderator

Everything you say makes a lot of sense IMO. I think the only thing the Ridgeline doesn't do better than the Canyon is, as you say, towing, and that's just because transverse transmissions hate towing so much. I pulled my race car with my 2009 Flex a few times and it always felt abusive.
JGeske
Instructor

Absolutely agree, I would never push it to its max rating cause that is always a recipe for disaster in any tow vehicle! It really comes down to being realistic about ones towing needs (and reading the door sticker, I bet a lot of F150 XL/XLT owners with the base 3.3L would be surprised to find their F150 doesn't tow more than the Ridgeline, I think it goes up to 7400lbs if you option the 3.73:1 axle). I know many here in Wisconsin that have 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons, but the biggest thing they tow is a lawnmower, or single UTV. If one needs to tow a good amount (say an enclosed car hauler or a 30+ft camper), absolutely buy the right capacity. I learned to drive in 1/2 and 3/4 tons and dad taught me to handle a trailer when I still had my temps, so I have a few miles of towing experience to know how bad it is to overdo it with too much trailer for your vehicle. People should also be smart about things like trailer brakes and weight distribution hitches. That said, if all one is towing is a UTV or a little jon boat, even the Maverick and Santa Cruz are more truck than you need for the job. My dad asked me, when I got my first Ridgeline, what I would do if I ever needed to tow more than it was rated for. I answered that in that rare/hypothetical instance (which still has not occurred since 2017) I would rent or borrow a more capable vehicle. Why pay thousands more on sticker, pay more in fuel and insurance, and suffer daily worse ride for a hypothetical future once or twice need? If my needs do change on a permanent or at least regular-use basis, I will probably buy a 1/2 ton GMC or Chevy like my dad's current one.

BMD4800
Gearhead

I pushed my old truck past the max rating many times and never smoked a transmission.  
My current one, I run at max GCWR frequently, 246k miles.  Must be a unicorn.  

Redawgleader
Pit Crew

I agree. The Ridgeline has a wide 'sweet spot' that bridges most of the gaps between domestic 1/2 tons and their mid-size siblings (towing excepted). And the ride...oh that sweet ride. My usual drive to the cabin is 4 hours. Always a pleasure in the Honda. One thing NOT mentioned so far is reliability. I haven't looked at Canyon/Colo or Ranger stats, but I am familiar with the stinky reliability stats of the full-size domestics. Atrocious. My brother has owned 3 Denali 1500's in the past few years (6.2L)....ALL of them had some form of engine or driveline failure. My Hondas on the other hand...failure-free. So when looking at cost (including repairs, inconvenience, and resale value) the multi-year TCO of the higher-trim Ridgeline model is likely to the be same or less than the Canyon/Colo or Ranger.
JGeske
Instructor

Fun fact, recent study found that the Honda Ridgeline is second place in the trucks most likely to see 200k miles (based on percentage of those with that mileage over number sold). Now, I strongly suspect this is in part because they don't get beat up as much as dedicated work trucks, but the majority of trucks sold are not used as work trucks, so I think a larger factor was the Honda J-series engine reliability.

For reference, the study was by iseecars.com titled "Longest-Lasting Cars, SUVs, and Trucks to Reach 200,000 Miles and Beyond" if you want to google it. The Honda was 13th most likely of all vehicles to reach 200k, and number 2 of trucks (number one was the Tundra with 4%, Honda was 3.7%, third place was the Tacoma at only 2.8%).
BMD4800
Gearhead

Your data is incorrect, it was the Ford Super Duty that was #1.  No doubt due to extensive fleet sales.  If one backs out the HD market, I guess that changes things.   

data is fun to manipulate. 

JGeske
Instructor

Literally nowhere in the website of the company that published that do they say what you just indicated, and the #1 spot on their list was the Toyota Land Cruiser. Again, I provided the name of their own article. Google it and read. Here I copied the data from the website.

RankVehicle% of Cars Over 200k Miles
1Toyota Land Cruiser18.2%
2Toyota Sequoia14.2%
3Chevrolet Suburban6.6%
4GMC Yukon XL5.2%
5Toyota 4Runner4.6%
6Ford Expedition4.5%
7Chevrolet Tahoe4.4%
8Toyota Tundra4.0%
9Toyota Avalon3.9%
10Toyota Prius3.9%
11Toyota Highlander Hybrid3.8%
12GMC Yukon3.7%
13Honda Ridgeline3.7%
14Honda Odyssey3.2%
15Toyota Sienna3.2%
JGeske
Instructor

Yeah, to anyone reading your response: Just look up the page whose title I helpfully provided, it is on iseecars own site, not a 3rd party summation or any data manipulation. None of what BMD says is in the article, and I don't know why he has such a stick up somewhere. Here is a literal copy/paste of the 1st part of the article:

"Truck-based SUVs represent the majority of the list
Toyotas account for 6 of top 10 vehicles with Land Cruiser and Sequoia dominating competition
Avalon and Prius are the only passenger cars to make the list
Nine SUVs make up the top 15 vehicles list that also includes three pickup trucks, two minivans, one sedan, and one hybrid hatchback.
Toyotas and full-size SUVs are the longest-lasting vehicles that are most likely to reach 200,000 miles or more, according to a new study by automotive research firm and car search engine iSeeCars.com.

iSeeCars analyzed over 14.9 million cars sold in 2021 to determine the most reliable models based on their long-term reliability with the highest percentage of cars reaching 200,000 miles.

“With new and used car prices at record highs, many consumers are likely keeping their vehicles on the road for an extended period of time or are looking to buy a reliable vehicle to get the most return on their investment,” said iSeeCars Executive Analyst Karl Brauer. “Toyotas account for the majority of the top ten longest-lasting vehicles, which validates the brand’s reputation for building enduring and reliable vehicles..”

Top 15 Longest-Lasting Cars: Toyota Land Cruiser Earns the Top Spot
The top 15 long-lasting models identified each have over 3.0 percent of their vehicles (more than two-and-a-half times the overall average) reach 200,000 miles, and include a mix of vehicle types with 9 SUVs (including a hybrid), three pickup trucks , one sedan, two minivans, and one hybrid hatchback. "
JGeske
Instructor

Also, what you call data manipulation, is actually called math, and your own comment shows how little you understand it. Let's say there are 2 truck makers, A & B. A makes 100k trucks, and 2500 of them reach 200k miles. That is 2.5% of the trucks made. B makes 800,000 trucks, and 10,000 of them make 200k, or 1.25%. So A could claim, truthfully, that their trucks are 2x as likely to reach 200k than B's. B could also claim, truthfully, that 4x as many of their trucks reach 200k than A's. You are claiming the latter with Ford, this study is looking at the former. The point it, if you were to buy a truck with the intention of reaching 200k with it, you are twice as likely to achieve that outcome with a vehicle from A. Ford simply sells more, so can claim a larger gross number, thanks in large part to the fleet sales you mention, the reliability and longevity is measured by percentage, not gross.

 

Another way of looking at it. If we were shooting guns competitively, and the prize went to whomever got a shot closest to the bullseye, someone shoots 10 rounds from a rifle, and someone else shoots one round of birdshot from a shotgun (making more vehicles). The shotgun is more likely to get more holes nearest the bullseye than shooting a rifle. They could claim their shotgun is more accurate. It isn't, it merely threw more lead down range to get more closer to the bullseye than the rifle rounds. The rifle is more accurate, the shotgun throws more at the problem.

asemastertech
Intermediate Driver

Having owned 5 new Dodge/Ram trucks and several used ones, all used mainly for towing and hauling and having 0 driveline problems after 500K miles you may want to rephrase your statement to SOME domestics have an atrocious reliability record. Mine have been virtually bullet proof!
BMD4800
Gearhead

You have to understand many Honda/Toyota devotees are stuck in a prior era of quality.  

my Brother in Law is one. He went on and on about how one domestic brand is pure garbage, but my sister’s 2021 Honda has been in to the dealer 17 times.  Never 3 times for the same issue, so they can’t lemon law it.   Went on a hunt, had to leave the Ridgeline in the parking area before heading deep into the mountains.   Whoa, he said, glad you have 4 wheel drive, he said.  I said, I’m still in 2wd, we’re just in 1st gear of a HD 5-speed.  

Hondas and Toyotas aren’t bad, they just fit a different market.   

DUB6
Specialist

   My '02 Dakota has 140K+ miles - and a LOT of those are very rugged 1/2 miles' worth of ranch duty, but it's also been on freeway trips hauling more of a load than it looks like it has capacity for.  Right now it's sitting in the driveway with a load of vintage air compressor parts I'm taking to be powder-coated (a restoration project to pipe air all through my garage and shop area).

   I change the oil and rotate the tires (when I think about it).  When it gets really muddy, I wash it (sometimes).  It ALWAYS starts first crank.  It's NEVER failed to take me wherever I need to go.  It isn't fancy (although it does have A/C), but it does the work I throw at it, and it never complains.  The headliner is sagging, but that doesn't seem to affect performance.  My friends and family borrow it.  I've taught two granddaughters to drive in the field in this pick-up.  I can't imagine that there is anything on the market today that could make me more happy than this truck.  😊

OldBird
Intermediate Driver

Agree. Had an 08 Ridgeline from new. If you don't care about tough guy truck image, it does a superb job and handles great to boot. I really liked mine. Also towed a small camping trailer with no problems.
JBaguley
Intermediate Driver

Monday morning commute southbound down "The deadliest stretch of road in North America" I45 in Houston was slowed by eight massive pick-'em-up trucks neatly compressed into a space suitable for only seven. It was kind of cool because they were all in such a nice straight line. It was also a good demonstration of the extended stopping distances needed for these behemoths, and the physics involved if such is not available.
BMD4800
Gearhead

Yeah.

 

Ever seen what happens to a little kid in a car seat when a Civic is t-boned by a Volvo?   

I bet that Dad would endure the scorn and ridicule of the entitled class, looked down their intellectual noses at the poor, down blue collar fool in his pickup.   

been doing this for 30 years, never had to testify when a 3 year was killed because the truck was severed in an accident.  

Zephyr
Instructor

The ideal pickup is a stepside, because the bed doesn't have wheelwells cutting into its carrying capacity, and the steps on the side make it easier to load and unload. 4WD? As a Land Rover salesman who had grown up on a farm once confided to me "if you can't get there in a 2 wheel drive pickup you've got no business going there."
Jack_Hagerty
Moderator

I'll admit that I had to switch the Canyon to 4WD to get out of a low spot on my property after a rainstorm; there just happened to be wet grass beneath the two drive wheels. But yeah, you're right in principle.
asemastertech
Intermediate Driver

As a guy who actually operates a farm, not sells Land Rovers, I can't wait for the snow to melt and the mud to dry up to be able to pull my machinery trailers with a 2wd truck, 4wd is a necessity on a real farm.
BMD4800
Gearhead

I own 1/3 of a 120 acre ranch. Some places even the Grand Cherokee can’t access.  But the old 3/4 tons can drag a stock trailer out there to pick up cattle.  In places I mean “drag” the trailer over rocks and high spots. 

DUB6
Specialist

Amen, brother!

DUB6
Specialist

That guy wasn't just selling Land Rovers - he was also selling a "crock o' you-know-what".  On my ranch, I have a hillside so steep that in 2WD, my pickup won't even begin to climb it - even in the best of conditions, let alone with a little wet or snow on it.  And at the top of that hill is a gate.  And if I can't get through that gate - well, there's not much need of me to give any more detail, because here's the deal: if some dude who doesn't work or live on a farm or a ranch is trying to give me advice about how I live and work my land, I'm best off to just turn on my heel and walk away...

JohninNC
Instructor

I moved several times in a 1988? Chevy S-10 king cab short bed (early boxy design). Iron duke 2.5 4 cylinder, and 5 speed stick, 2wd. Charcoal gray, gray interior with front bucket seats. It was a great small truck.
I'd like to drive the new Ford Maverick. Like another mentioned, it's really all the truck most people "need".
JGeske
Instructor

Absolutely, if people are honest about their needs. I personally drive a Ridgeline, and when an S10 owner was hating on it to me once, saying how it wasn't "tough enough" to be a real work truck. I pointed out that I have the exact same ground clearance, more payload capacity by several hundred pounds, only 200lbs less towing capacity, more cab space, city economy better than his highway econ, better ride, and a much larger bed compared to his S10 Crew short box 4x4. He really did not like the facts. Perception vs reality I guess.
hyperv6
Racer

The harsh reality here is that Trucks are like tools. When you buy a truck you need to asses what the job you have is and buy the proper tool for the job.

The trouble today is too often people buy the tool they think they need and end up with the wrong size and unhappy. Or they try to treat it as a universal tool and then strip the nut they are trying to loosen.
There is no one size fits all as if you buy small that once in 21 year move happens. Or if you buy large then the you get mad for driving empty most of the time and paying too much for gas on a truck you really did not need. Murphy's law applies.

The trick is to buy what you need and not always what you want.

All cars cost too much today and with increasing regulations they are only costing more.

The bed height is fine as the bumper steps are sweet. The Multi gate is great and coming to a mid size truck this fall. Never had a failure so not sure what happened there.

The last time I moved I did most of it with an HHR SS. We had time and I hauled a load each night. Then when the big stuff had to go like furniture and several roller chests of tools and benches. We opted for the right tool called a large U haul GMC. Two loads and we were done. Like a big hammer it knocked it out fast.

The key to life and trucks like my old boss taught me is to work smarter not harder.
As for my daily needs the tool for me is a simple choice the GMC Canyon Denali. 99% of my needs will fit it from a Soap Box Derby racer to a Keith Black Hemi Funny Car Short Block. I even have hauled a main tire for the Space Shuttle in it. I really don't tow but if I did It will pull a car and trailer.
As a back up if needed I can always get the Father In laws 2021 Z71. But it is rare when I need to use it.

I have had a BIg Block 72 GMC Sprint SP, 88 Chevy S10 and a 97 Sonoma ZQ8. I loved all of these vehicles but the truck I have today is just the right size. It is faster than all three of the previous and gets better MPG than any of them. It fit the garage well and will haul 5 adults if called upon.

You also need to get the model right not just the size. I almost was lured away by a ZR2 Colorado, you know that call of the wild and all. Higher, Lockers and skid plates just yell Hell ya!. But then I got to thinking my off road is driving in the yard to dump mulch off. I realized the cooling seats would get used more than the front locker. In the end I made the right choice and added a rear sway bar to make the back roads even better.

Then just today I had two of my manager in a meeting get all geeky over their new Jeep Gladiators. They got on me to sell my truck to buy one. I advised that I like my ride and comfort and not willing to give it up for the death wobble of a jeep that will never go off road. It really is a jeep thing as I have enough miles in one from where I used to work.

Soon they will tire of their Jeeps as they did the Rams and Taco. In the mean while my miles are not piling up and my son is working his degree. Once this is completed I hope to keep the low mile truck and lower might sites on a C1 or C8 Vette of my dreams.





Gary_Bechtold
Specialist

The Sierra like it's badge-twin Silverado are just so dang big and ugly. The Canyon/Colorado may be the last decent looking american pickups right now. Every new truck is just getting bigger with more GRILLE and more LOGO on them. It's comical watching them grow in size both physical and font wise. It's like typing in all caps all the time.

CitationMan
Gearhead

I call it the Locomotive School of Truck Design.
Gary_Bechtold
Specialist

Locomotives are arguably better looking but I understand.

SteelyDan
Intermediate Driver

All the truck issues I fixed with a 1955 F-100. Stepside- SO EASY to get things in and out even at the cab end of the bed. Low floor.
At cars & coffee type events, those in the know ask why I have not replaced the wood bed. Answer: 99.8% of those dudes will NEVER even put a gas can in their queen. Or mulch. Or brush. Or recycling. Etc. (OK the tailgate latch and chains are fiddly-what is your hurry?)
You meet more people to chat with running this around town in Ol Blue than your every-one-on-every-block RamAnali1500SQX Off Track 9.3L 4barn door Punybed peekumup.

This is supposed to be a classic car forum- when the hell did it turn into Cars.com?

Jack_Hagerty
Moderator

"This is supposed to be a classic car forum- when the hell did it turn into Cars.com?"

With over a million Hagerty members out there, driving everything from Brass Era to the Ferrari SF90, we have to cast a pretty wide net nowadays!
Tomcat59
Intermediate Driver

I currently have 1971 Chevy C20 and a 2020 GMC Sierra.

The 71 C20 is a Cheyenne Super, 402 BB, TH 400, air, PS, PB, tilt wheel, factory tach 8' box in two tone red/white with black/white hounds tooth seat covering. It spent its first 48 years in California and has under 75k original miles. The paint is original, which means the bed has scuffs and scrapes. This is my summer daily driver because 1) it drives beautifully, although a little bouncy w/o a load 2) it is easy to load (think low box height and 8' box with a real tailgate, the lumber yard guys love it.) and 3) it makes people smile everywhere I go.

The 2020 Sierra is my "winter beater" and long haul tow vehicle. It has the 3.0 Duramax, 10 speed, 4wd, LS, tow package, heated seats and steering wheel, remote start. Its a crew cab/regular (6.5') box. It has the multi pro tail gate, which I kind of like but mostly hate. I'm leasing this one. I put a cap on it and the carpeted liner. We use this one to haul stuff that can't get wet. The tailgate does make it easier to climb in since it has a cap. Blizzak winter tires. The Duramax is great IMHO. I had a 2003 GMC HD 2500 / Duramax truck for 17 years and loved it. But I don't tow big stuff any more. The 2020 is rated to tow 9000 lbs, which is enough for me. The Max Tow package on the 2022/23 now is up to 13,000 lbs. So more than my old HD Duramax. And 26 MPG hwy is respectable fuel economy, I get 17 MPH pulling a 7000 lb trailer.

So for me the current range of "half ton" trucks are more than capable for what most of us do on a regular basis. And they are super comfortable. My wife likes my Sierra better than her 2017 Mercedes Benz GLS 550, consequently we have a Yukon Denali on order.

I agree that the mid size trucks really don't make sense. I you want to save a little money, buy a Sierra/Silverado with the 2.7 Turbo. Great engine, good mileage, solid power. But buy the whole truck.
Jack_Hagerty
Moderator

There are a lot of 2.7T half-tons on the lots right now; at some dealers it's all they have. I like the idea of it but from what I've read, it's the least reliable GM truck powertrain by leaps and bounds. I saw a nice club-cab LT with an eight foot bed. Forty-five grand for all the necessities and no frills. Seemed like a good deal.
Ajakeski
Detailer

Anything less than 3/4 ton is a mini van with half a roof. Buy the minivan, it'll be more useful for you.
Jack_Hagerty
Moderator

As someone who regularly pulled 8,000 pounds with a Silverado 1500 6.2, I have to disagree! That being said, I'd like to see the details of how people use their Mavericks and Bronco Sports, because those are basically the same vehicle with different roof structures.
Goes2fast
Intermediate Driver

You can't get the bulky things I haul in my S10 inside a minivan unless you cut the roof off!