I would suggest reading the Chrysler wind tunnel tests regarding the "useless, gaudy rear spoiler". Although not very useful for a street version, the physics behind the nose cone and wing ( not spoiler ) cannot be denied. During the Aero Wars of the late 60's and early 70's, the wing cars could not lose due specifically to the nose cone and wing. It was all about the aerodynamics. Also suggested reading is: NASCAR Homologation Rules. Wkiipedia: In racing series that are "production-based", meaning that the vehicles entered in the series are based on production vehicles for sale to the public, homologation not only requires compliance with a racing series's technical guidelines (for example engine displacement, chassis construction, suspension design and such), but often includes minimum levels of sales of that model to the public, to ensure that no vehicles in the competition have been designed and produced solely for racing. Since such vehicles are primarily intended for the race track, practical use on public roads is generally a secondary design consideration, so long as government regulations are met.
Like a Fiero ? Think part of the reason was that many of the European sports cars (like Maserati) were dipping into the FIAT parts bin.
Of course I have never understood French 3 bolt wheels.
ps back in my autocross daze I broke A Lot of 13x6 Vega GT 4 bolt wheels. Usually a right front every weekend.
Padgett, breaking wheels fascinates me. In my decades of reckless idiocy I have lost wheels, broken lug studs, had blowouts at highway speeds, even caught a tire on fire on the Mass. Turnpike but have only managed to bend a few wheels, never broken any. I can't even imagine the tire performance it would take to do this repeatedly. Please elaborate: were the centers failing around the lugs? Welds failing at the rim/center joint?
Usually I'd crack the hubs into the lug nut holes, shall we just say the car always won but the driver sometimes lost. Over time I broke the suspension mounts, saginaw trannys, posi rear axles and pushed the clutch through the firewall.
For more info see here.
ps once was passed by a rear tire (GM 10 bolt), does that count ?
Yep, I do own my precious 1988 Fiero GT, for the last 30 years. Previously, I owned 2 2M4 basic models to commute, which it was it's purpose, definitely NOT a sports car as too many thought. But, in 1987, when I read about the major improvements the Pontiac guys did, I HAD to have one. After 5 years of searching and seeing so many POS, I found a pristine one with 27k km, about 12k miles.
BTW, the French 3 lug nuts go back to post-war 11 recovery. Those were tough years. But they needed cars. And the gas was very expensive. They had to scrim nuts and bolts, steel was a rarety. That's why Citroën came up with the legendary 2CV. Cheap to build, simple to maintain and tough as a nail. Yes, slow as a snail !
As for Autocrossing a VEGA (!!) you were an adventurous driver ! 😳 Made good timings ?
@Padgett I think that’s a bit of a stretch. The LS5 454 was ordered in plenty of Monte Carlos. Sure, they had more basic engine selections than the Grand Prix, but I wouldn’t say they lacked performance options. Besides the lack of a manual doesn’t negate the performance ability of these cars. Nobody would dare argue that an LS5 equipped Chevelle SS with a TH400 wasn’t a performance car.
Understand, just was deep into long distance road racing at the time and
all of my cars had manual transmissions. Most racers did have automatics on the street but I was always practicing & traffic wasn't heavy then.
Am talking about compared to what else was available in 1970, the MC was kind of a, well, wimp. In 1970 I was Autocrossing a Buick GS with 4 speed, posi, and AC. No MC made (and few Z-28s) could stay with it.
First car was an XK Jaguar (took the cure after nine) but by 67 was deep
into GM and autocrossing a Camaro: 327/4 speed/posi/AC. In fact by '70
one way to tell something really interesting from GM was "N/A with C60".
First with an automagic was a '72 GTO station wagon tow car (400-4bbl,
posi & AC) . Did I mention am a Floridian ?
Allantes before 1993 used a Bosch ABS while most of the rest of GM (and Ford) used the Teves. Both are different from the Powermaster. If you look at a block diagram they are the same and even use Hall effect sensors and have the same working pressures. Most common failure is the 50A pump relay.
See section 5E in the service manual for more. I suspect some of the Facebook groups would be better for this kind of question.
I always prefered the term "Sport Coupe", "Luxo-Barges" were something else. Friends called mine "Asphyiation" because of the tire smoke but that was decades before became popular. Still think "going up in smoke" means "slow".
ps my DD today is a CTS Coupe with 3.73 gear and posi. 6 speed automagic with lockup.
Back in the day friends said I could make a Muncie sound like an automatic, loved power shifts (BTW a "good" Muncie has a larger input shaft. Of course most small haft Muncies have littered strips by now.)
Times were different then. In '70 the only 454 in the MC was the LS5 and part of an SS package. Have heard that the 454 in MCs had 2 bolt mains. Need to dig out my Bill Thomas book.
GP was available with a 455 and Muncie but you did not want a '70 455.
Thanks for the feedback. I’d point out the weird aesthetic of reporting old and new values that on the page as well as these being an average drop. Some condition levels may have had a larger or smaller change. Instead we hyperlink the page to the Valuation Tools so the reader can dive deeper if they wish.
Is this site about cars or money? If the latter, stick with Kiplinger's or the Wall Street Journal Weekend Edition.
Most of us with nice old cars flinch when we hear the all too common rudeness of "What's sumpin' like that worth?" as if some monetary figure imbues instant understanding of a complex survivor, how and why it was built, its marketplace competitors in the day, its engineering novelty, if any.
Please, enough of this. More about automobiles. And let's park the "muscle cars" for awhile. Station wagon engines in egregious mid-sized Motown tin with trucky rear axle ratios and dopey decals.
Cars, interesting ones, have been around over 120 years. There were "muscle cars" long before the '33 Terraplane 8: Chadwick, Lozier, Simplex, Locomobile "speed cars," for example.
Don't tell us "yeah, but" you can't afford one while in the same breath boring people how much dinero you've dumped into a "numbers matching" reskinned Falcon or '67 Camaro which styling a complete crib of the Ferrari Lusso, just as the '55 Chevy stole the concurrent Prancing Horse's grille.
No, not suggesting you buy a Prancing Horse. But what do you know about prewar Buicks, Packards, Railtons, Hudsons? Ever drive a 1936-38 Pierce-Arrow 8 with standard overdrive? Or a '40/'41 Chrysler New Yorker with overdrive? You can buy a Stutz SV16, even DV32, for less than some of these dopey muscle cars.
Some of us got involved with ancient stuff when we were just out of college, if not before. Like affordable sports cars with charm? Try a Riley or Bristol. Alvis had synchromesh on first gear beginning 1936.
If sheer speed's really your sole interest, you can open track a retired race car for a relative song. Spare us the Lamborghini, etc. "super cars" that depreciate like lead weights after a couple years when the arbitragers, mall developers with need to be seen in the latest thing move on. Enzo Ferrari's interest in his street cars was that they funded his love, racing. Not one of them rust-proofed and they shared dash switches, etc. with lowly Fiats. Sure, when fettled, they drive nicely, but not thrice as good as a big Healey, XK-140, Jensen 541.
Trust us. 120 years of automobilia and most of it more affordable than a noisy tin box from the '60s. Yes, we know muscle cars like '69 Chargers w/ 440 SixPak bumper to bumper.
Trust us, they get old. It's like school. You're allowed to 1, learn, 2, graduate.
This focus on lamestream aging mallbrat fare is tedious. Jerking off in front of strangers at a stoplight. Dumb enough as a teen, but in your 50s or beyond? Try boner pills.
A bubble is coming and these cars will take a hit, but let’s face it, with the lack of good clean examples the supply and demand system will keep these cars out of most peoples hands!! Look at the price of the new ZO6, 106 thousand!! Remember the price of the first ZO6?? I do because I owned one and like others I have owned I gave it away to get my next daily driver not a garage queen!!